From ean.frick at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 19:16:59 2008
From: ean.frick at gmail.com (Ean Frick)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:16:59 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] anyone lose a bike?
Message-ID: <f520a35a0801031616x6d12eac4vad2dfde8ba80769@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone lose a black track bike? I found it downtown, unlocked on saturday. I
went out of state for the weekend and on monday it was still there, still
unlocked so I rode it home and it's now in the safety of my apartment. If
you can prove you're the owner,(serial number, really detailed description,
etc) I'll get it back to you. Getting a bike jacked really sucks so I hope I
can reunite it with it's owner.
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From thom3 at aol.com  Mon Jan  7 11:18:50 2008
From: thom3 at aol.com (thom3 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:18:50 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
Message-ID: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>

Did anyone read the below linked?article that was posted in the Globe? Do you think this is a valid picture of what CM is, and what was the thinking of biking through MIT? Does that further CM's mission? 

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_mass/
________________________________________________________________________
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From leepeters at gis.net  Mon Jan  7 11:32:34 2008
From: leepeters at gis.net (Lee Peters)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:32:34 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <008201c8514a$ea1bcf60$6564a8c0@Unit2>

It wasn't that bad imho.  He missed the beginning of CM for Boston - which was at least as far back as 1993.


Did you guys actually ride through the buildings of MIT ?  I am freakin' impressed !  


(CM's mission is only to meet at a time and place and ride.....until you assign it a mission)






  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: thom3 at aol.com 
  To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org 
  Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 11:18 AM
  Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....


  Did anyone read the below linked article that was posted in the Globe? Do you think this is a valid picture of what CM is, and what was the thinking of biking through MIT? Does that further CM's mission? 

  http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_mass/

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From ajp at aripollak.com  Mon Jan  7 11:31:21 2008
From: ajp at aripollak.com (Ari Pollak)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:31:21 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
In-Reply-To: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1199723481.17290.54.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>

The only real problem I have with the article  is this:

"We always get calls about them," said Officer Frank Pasquarello,
spokesman for the Cambridge Police Department." If there's a violation,
we will stop them. . . . At red lights they have to stop. On some
occasions, we have had a talk with them. But we have no problem with
them if they obey the laws."

Saying "we have had a talk with them" is quite the understatement.


On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 11:18 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> Did anyone read the below linked article that was posted in the Globe?
> Do you think this is a valid picture of what CM is, and what was the
> thinking of biking through MIT? Does that further CM's mission? 
> 
> http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_mass/

> 


From thom3 at aol.com  Mon Jan  7 11:47:37 2008
From: thom3 at aol.com (thom3 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:47:37 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
In-Reply-To: <008201c8514a$ea1bcf60$6564a8c0@Unit2>
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
	<008201c8514a$ea1bcf60$6564a8c0@Unit2>
Message-ID: <8CA1F64249BAEFB-F88-345@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>




99, 93.... hmmmm

why is that impressive? it's cool, sure, but is it something that should be done by a group that ride under the banner bicycle advocacy? (is that not the mission as the article?pointed?)??Can you mix anarchy with advocacy? I'm sure the argument can be made for yes, but on the other hand you could argue "stunts" make the group less tolerable and less viable as a socio-political voice. 

I think the article was OK, not flattering or I think emblematic, it made the group sound more like renegades than advocate. I prefer the excellent article in the Phoenix that was bore from this email list last fall about the thwarted bike theft.... now there were bikers being bikers and in the community of bikers. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Peters <leepeters at gis.net>
To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:32 am
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....



It wasn't that bad imho.? He missed the beginning of CM for Boston - which was at least?as far back as?1993.

?

?

Did you guys actually ride through the buildings of MIT ?? I am freakin' impressed !? 

?

?

(CM's mission is only to meet at a time and place and ride.....until you assign it a mission)

?

?

?

?

?

?


----- Original Message ----- 

From: thom3 at aol.com 

To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org 

Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 11:18 AM

Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....



Did anyone read the below linked?article that was posted in the Globe? Do you think this is a valid picture of what CM is, and what was the thinking of biking through MIT? Does that further CM's mission? 

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_mass/ 





_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


________________________________________________________________________
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From ericmearns at gmail.com  Mon Jan  7 11:48:36 2008
From: ericmearns at gmail.com (Eric Mearns)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:48:36 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
In-Reply-To: <1199723481.17290.54.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
	<1199723481.17290.54.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
Message-ID: <fe966c460801070848n3d4bff0esa9ad9cd424d669ae@mail.gmail.com>

Also, "One rider blocked a whole lane of traffic" should be "One rider
USED a whole lane of traffic".

On Jan 7, 2008 11:31 AM, Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com> wrote:
> The only real problem I have with the article  is this:
>
> "We always get calls about them," said Officer Frank Pasquarello,
> spokesman for the Cambridge Police Department." If there's a violation,
> we will stop them. . . . At red lights they have to stop. On some
> occasions, we have had a talk with them. But we have no problem with
> them if they obey the laws."
>
> Saying "we have had a talk with them" is quite the understatement.
>
>
> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 11:18 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> > Did anyone read the below linked article that was posted in the Globe?
> > Do you think this is a valid picture of what CM is, and what was the
> > thinking of biking through MIT? Does that further CM's mission?
> >
> > http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_mass/
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>

From thom3 at aol.com  Mon Jan  7 11:49:03 2008
From: thom3 at aol.com (thom3 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:49:03 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
In-Reply-To: <1199723481.17290.54.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
	<1199723481.17290.54.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
Message-ID: <8CA1F6458497220-F88-361@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>

can you elaborate as to why it is an understatement?

-----Original Message-----
From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 11:31 am
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....



The only real problem I have with the article  is this:

"We always get calls about them," said Officer Frank Pasquarello,
spokesman for the Cambridge Police Department." If there's a violation,
we will stop them. . . . At red lights they have to stop. On some
occasions, we have had a talk with them. But we have no problem with
them if they obey the laws."

Saying "we have had a talk with them" is quite the understatement.


On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 11:18 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> Did anyone read the below linked article that was posted in the Globe?
> Do you think this is a valid picture of what CM is, and what was the
> thinking of biking through MIT? Does that further CM's mission? 
> 
> http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_mass/

> 

_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


________________________________________________________________________
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From dbx at pobox.com  Mon Jan  7 12:15:19 2008
From: dbx at pobox.com (Dan Barrett)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:15:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
In-Reply-To: <8CA1F64249BAEFB-F88-345@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
	<008201c8514a$ea1bcf60$6564a8c0@Unit2>
	<8CA1F64249BAEFB-F88-345@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <48126.208.27.111.121.1199726119.squirrel@webmail.offthehill.org>

The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star
Market in Porter Square.


From ajp at aripollak.com  Mon Jan  7 12:26:10 2008
From: ajp at aripollak.com (Ari Pollak)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:26:10 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
In-Reply-To: <8CA1F68F81A2168-F88-5C8@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
	<1199723481.17290.54.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
	<8CA1F6458497220-F88-361@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
	<1199726292.17290.58.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
	<8CA1F68F81A2168-F88-5C8@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1199726770.17290.64.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>

I don't think there was ever a followup on the list, and I think I was
too far ahead on that ride to notice the arrest.

On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 12:22 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> Oh yeah, an oldie but a goodie..... 
> 
> do you recall what ever happened to the person?
> 
> 
> Tom
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
> To: thom3 at aol.com
> Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:18 pm
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> 
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/pipermail/bostoncriticalmass/2006-April/001172.html
> 
> I suppose that could've been State Police activity since the post did
> not specify, but still...
> 
> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 11:49 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> > can you elaborate as to why it is an understatement?
> 
> > 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
> 


From jontramos at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  7 13:19:06 2008
From: jontramos at yahoo.com (Jon Ramos)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:19:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
Message-ID: <987987.84829.qm@web50008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I missed the December ride due to my broken right hand, (bicycle accident, hit by a car on Tremont St) but I have to say that I am appalled that the group rode through a building.  Corking traffic, and giving angry motorists 'the business' is one thing, because we have a right to be there etc, etc... but inside a building?  that's just not cool.  There is no place in a corridor for a pedestrian to get out of the way from a bicycle, in that situation we are analogous to cars driving down bike lanes & sidewalks.  We dont have a right to be there.  The December ride sounds like it may have been fun, but really it just made CM riders look like real a-holes.

- Jon


----- Original Message ----
From: Dan Barrett <dbx at pobox.com>
To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 12:15:19 PM
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....

The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star
Market in Porter Square.

_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From jym at econet.org  Mon Jan  7 14:42:25 2008
From: jym at econet.org (Jym Dyer)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:42:25 -0800
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828083@econet.org>

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_mass/

=v= As feared, an article hopped up on an unrepresentative
sampling of controversies and riddled with inaccuracies.

| ... and about 300 other cities ...

=1= Wow, good thing I pointed the guy to the www.critical-mass.org
website which documents 450 cities.

| ... or just blocking traffic.

=2= Um, BEING traffic.  Editorialize much?

| Critical Mass has caused contention in many communities - from
| New York, where hundreds of massers were arrested at the 2004
| Republican National Convention, to San Francisco, where Mayor
| Willie Brown declared war on the group.

=3= Editorialize much about who caused what?  I suppose NYC's
August 2004 ride (which a fact-checker should have noticed was
*before* the RNC) "caused" 1800 people to be arrested over the
next weekend, too, huh?

=4= The police attack on the July 1997 ride in San Francisco was
indeed Willie Brown declaring war on us, but the "cause" was a
massive traffic jam on the day of the June 1997 ride, which was
underway before the ride even began, then blamed on the ride
after the fact.

| The group's activities have spawned the term "U-lock justice"

=5= Wrong.  That term goes back at least to the 1980s.
    <_Jym_>





From adam at rosi-kessel.org  Mon Jan  7 13:55:59 2008
From: adam at rosi-kessel.org (Adam Rosi-Kessel)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:55:59 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
In-Reply-To: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828083@econet.org>
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
	<Jym.07Jan2008.47828083@econet.org>
Message-ID: <478275BF.8060203@rosi-kessel.org>

Jym Dyer wrote:
> | The group's activities have spawned the term "U-lock justice"
> =5= Wrong.  That term goes back at least to the 1980s.

And, just for the record, I never mentioned "civil disobedience." And my 
name is spelled with one L.

From ajp at aripollak.com  Mon Jan  7 14:05:44 2008
From: ajp at aripollak.com (Ari Pollak)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:05:44 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
In-Reply-To: <478275BF.8060203@rosi-kessel.org>
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
	<Jym.07Jan2008.47828083@econet.org> <478275BF.8060203@rosi-kessel.org>
Message-ID: <1199732744.17290.86.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>

Sounds like a letter to the editor is in order.

On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 13:55 -0500, Adam Rosi-Kessel wrote:
> And, just for the record, I never mentioned "civil disobedience." And my 
> name is spelled with one L.


From info at adamshoop.org  Mon Jan  7 14:19:40 2008
From: info at adamshoop.org (Adam Shoop)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:19:40 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
In-Reply-To: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828083@econet.org>
References: <8CA1F601F584F0E-F88-130@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
	<Jym.07Jan2008.47828083@econet.org>
Message-ID: <00c001c85162$41ca9720$6402a8c0@DG9BNJ41>

There are some pertinent comments on the Boston Fixed Gear forums as well.

Here's the main one:

http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=434&page=1

And then one on what would make a better article:

http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=435&page=1

-AS


From jym at econet.org  Mon Jan  7 15:44:06 2008
From: jym at econet.org (Jym Dyer)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:44:06 -0800
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
In-Reply-To: Message from thom3@aol.com of "Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:15:20 EST."
References: <8CA1F78C7AB553F-F88-DAF@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828ef8@econet.org>

> the article is pretty much amature hour IMHO

=v= Well, the guy was upfront about his amateur status when he
came to this list asking for information.  What bothers me is
that he was given access to resources that would have made his
article more accurate, and apparently ignored them.

=v= I could tell by his second inquiry that he wanted to focus
on the whiz! bang! pow! controversial! stuff, and warned that
it would lead to dishonestly unrepresentative reporting.  And
lo, it came to pass.
    <_Jym_>


From thom3 at aol.com  Mon Jan  7 14:50:45 2008
From: thom3 at aol.com (thom3 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:50:45 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
In-Reply-To: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828ef8@econet.org>
References: <8CA1F78C7AB553F-F88-DAF@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
	<Jym.07Jan2008.47828ef8@econet.org>
Message-ID: <8CA1F7DBA6649B6-F88-1074@webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>

right RE his status and I agree he was immensely lazy in his ability to do research. I am just amazed that The Boston Globe let this shit fly. 

I also think the POV is weird and sounds like the guy?drove a car along side the group and occassiobnally stops and asked "What are you feeling, what are you thinking?"

It's total crap, and why did he not wait til the thaw when a more "typical"/robust CM ride happens....


Tom


-----Original Message-----
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 3:44 pm
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...



> the article is pretty much amature hour IMHO

=v= Well, the guy was upfront about his amateur status when he
came to this list asking for information.  What bothers me is
that he was given access to resources that would have made his
article more accurate, and apparently ignored them.

=v= I could tell by his second inquiry that he wanted to focus
on the whiz! bang! pow! controversial! stuff, and warned that
it would lead to dishonestly unrepresentative reporting.  And
lo, it came to pass.
    <_Jym_>

_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


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From hyamada at MIT.EDU  Mon Jan  7 19:14:28 2008
From: hyamada at MIT.EDU (Hiroyuki G Yamada)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:14:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
In-Reply-To: <987987.84829.qm@web50008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <987987.84829.qm@web50008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64L.0801071909540.12160@vinegar-pot.mit.edu>

Keep In mind though, that MIT wasn't in session at this point -- Finals 
were over the 21st and most people students gone by the 22nd or 23rd. The 
remaining grad students etc were probably a minuscule proportion of the 
usual traffic in the infinite corridor and this was probably taken into 
consideration when the ride through MIT was suggested. Also, with only 30 
riders (if the article is to be trusted on that count) it also wouldn't 
have been as bad. Probably not the best of ideas on a friday in the middle 
of term, with 300+ riders, to go traipsing through a corridor, but in that 
particular instance, I can't imagine that it was too much trouble.

As for the article, it sounds like he wanted to get as "good" of an 
article out (his standard for good might have been exciting or "wham pow," 
vs an actual editorially accurate and well-written piece) with as little 
work -- just trolling around on wikipedia could have given him the 
information he posted. Given how responsive Boston's CM list was, it 
certainly seems that he could have gotten a more in-depth look at our 
particular ride.

(Perhaps written up a blurb about the arrest over at Harvard Square in the 
(I think) October ride?)

--Yuki

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008, Jon Ramos wrote:

> I missed the December ride due to my broken right hand, (bicycle accident, hit by a car on Tremont St) but I have to say that I am appalled that the group rode through a building.  Corking traffic, and giving angry motorists 'the business' is one thing, because we have a right to be there etc, etc... but inside a building?  that's just not cool.  There is no place in a corridor for a pedestrian to get out of the way from a bicycle, in that situation we are analogous to cars driving down bike lanes & sidewalks.  We dont have a right to be there.  The December ride sounds like it may have been fun, but really it just made CM riders look like real a-holes.
>
> - Jon
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dan Barrett <dbx at pobox.com>
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 12:15:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>
> The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star
> Market in Porter Square.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
>
>      ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

From prstango at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 01:34:57 2008
From: prstango at gmail.com (Philip Stango)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 01:34:57 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.30.1199751273.2329.bostoncriticalmass@bostoncriticalmass.org>
References: <mailman.30.1199751273.2329.bostoncriticalmass@bostoncriticalmass.org>
Message-ID: <699a84290801072234r6eb9b57bk34ea4e63ea1de9dd@mail.gmail.com>

Rather than make  judgments about the ride through the MIT corridor  based
on speculation, how about taking an account from someone who was there. We
went through in single file, and the corridor was quite wide, likely more
than 8-10 feet. There was plenty of room for "pedestrians to get out of the
way from a bicycle."  Passers-by strolled calmly in the opposite direction
as we pedaled by, single file, at a leisurely pace, while others hardly
looked up from their laptops as they sat at benches. It was much more
magical/whimsical than anything else. Given our small numbers and the small
number of passers-by, it was very much dissimilar to a car going down a
sidewalk. Not something to be repeated with a larger group or during the
semester, but certainly a treat for all involved, I reckon.

On Jan 7, 2008 7:14 PM, <bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org>
wrote:

> Send Bostoncriticalmass mailing list submissions to
>        bostoncriticalmass at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://lists.bostoncoop.net/mailman/listinfo/bostoncriticalmass
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>        bostoncriticalmass-owner at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Bostoncriticalmass digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>      (Dan Barrett)
>   2. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... (Ari Pollak)
>   3. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... (Jon Ramos)
>   4. Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Jym Dyer)
>   5. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
>      (Adam Rosi-Kessel)
>   6. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Ari Pollak)
>   7. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Adam Shoop)
>   8. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Jym Dyer)
>   9. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
>      (thom3 at aol.com)
>  10. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>      (Hiroyuki G Yamada)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:15:19 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Dan Barrett" <dbx at pobox.com>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> To: bostoncriticalmass at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID:
>        <48126.208.27.111.121.1199726119.squirrel at webmail.offthehill.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star
> Market in Porter Square.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:26:10 -0500
> From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> To: thom3 at aol.com
> Cc: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID: <1199726770.17290.64.camel at apollak.lab.compete.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> I don't think there was ever a followup on the list, and I think I was
> too far ahead on that ride to notice the arrest.
>
> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 12:22 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> > Oh yeah, an oldie but a goodie.....
> >
> > do you recall what ever happened to the person?
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
> > To: thom3 at aol.com
> > Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:18 pm
> > Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> >
> >
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/pipermail/bostoncriticalmass/2006-April/001172.html
> >
> > I suppose that could've been State Police activity since the post did
> > not specify, but still...
> >
> > On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 11:49 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> > > can you elaborate as to why it is an understatement?
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:19:06 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jon Ramos <jontramos at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> To: dbx at pobox.com, list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID: <987987.84829.qm at web50008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I missed the December ride due to my broken right hand, (bicycle accident,
> hit by a car on Tremont St) but I have to say that I am appalled that the
> group rode through a building.  Corking traffic, and giving angry motorists
> 'the business' is one thing, because we have a right to be there etc, etc...
> but inside a building?  that's just not cool.  There is no place in a
> corridor for a pedestrian to get out of the way from a bicycle, in that
> situation we are analogous to cars driving down bike lanes & sidewalks.  We
> dont have a right to be there.  The December ride sounds like it may have
> been fun, but really it just made CM riders look like real a-holes.
>
> - Jon
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dan Barrett <dbx at pobox.com>
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 12:15:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>
> The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star
> Market in Porter Square.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:42:25 -0800
> From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
> Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828083 at econet.org>
>
>
> http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_mass/
>
> =v= As feared, an article hopped up on an unrepresentative
> sampling of controversies and riddled with inaccuracies.
>
> | ... and about 300 other cities ...
>
> =1= Wow, good thing I pointed the guy to the www.critical-mass.org
> website which documents 450 cities.
>
> | ... or just blocking traffic.
>
> =2= Um, BEING traffic.  Editorialize much?
>
> | Critical Mass has caused contention in many communities - from
> | New York, where hundreds of massers were arrested at the 2004
> | Republican National Convention, to San Francisco, where Mayor
> | Willie Brown declared war on the group.
>
> =3= Editorialize much about who caused what?  I suppose NYC's
> August 2004 ride (which a fact-checker should have noticed was
> *before* the RNC) "caused" 1800 people to be arrested over the
> next weekend, too, huh?
>
> =4= The police attack on the July 1997 ride in San Francisco was
> indeed Willie Brown declaring war on us, but the "cause" was a
> massive traffic jam on the day of the June 1997 ride, which was
> underway before the ride even began, then blamed on the ride
> after the fact.
>
> | The group's activities have spawned the term "U-lock justice"
>
> =5= Wrong.  That term goes back at least to the 1980s.
>    <_Jym_>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:55:59 -0500
> From: Adam Rosi-Kessel <adam at rosi-kessel.org>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <478275BF.8060203 at rosi-kessel.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Jym Dyer wrote:
> > | The group's activities have spawned the term "U-lock justice"
> > =5= Wrong.  That term goes back at least to the 1980s.
>
> And, just for the record, I never mentioned "civil disobedience." And my
> name is spelled with one L.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:05:44 -0500
> From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <1199732744.17290.86.camel at apollak.lab.compete.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Sounds like a letter to the editor is in order.
>
> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 13:55 -0500, Adam Rosi-Kessel wrote:
> > And, just for the record, I never mentioned "civil disobedience." And my
> > name is spelled with one L.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:19:40 -0500
> From: "Adam Shoop" <info at adamshoop.org>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: "'Boston Critical Mass'" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <00c001c85162$41ca9720$6402a8c0 at DG9BNJ41>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> There are some pertinent comments on the Boston Fixed Gear forums as well.
>
> Here's the main one:
>
> http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=434&page=1
>
> And then one on what would make a better article:
>
> http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=435&page=1
>
> -AS
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:44:06 -0800
> From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828ef8 at econet.org>
>
> > the article is pretty much amature hour IMHO
>
> =v= Well, the guy was upfront about his amateur status when he
> came to this list asking for information.  What bothers me is
> that he was given access to resources that would have made his
> article more accurate, and apparently ignored them.
>
> =v= I could tell by his second inquiry that he wanted to focus
> on the whiz! bang! pow! controversial! stuff, and warned that
> it would lead to dishonestly unrepresentative reporting.  And
> lo, it came to pass.
>    <_Jym_>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:50:45 -0500
> From: thom3 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org, list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID: <8CA1F7DBA6649B6-F88-1074 at webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> right RE his status and I agree he was immensely lazy in his ability to do
> research. I am just amazed that The Boston Globe let this shit fly.
>
> I also think the POV is weird and sounds like the guy?drove a car along
> side the group and occassiobnally stops and asked "What are you feeling,
> what are you thinking?"
>
> It's total crap, and why did he not wait til the thaw when a more
> "typical"/robust CM ride happens....
>
>
> Tom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
> To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 3:44 pm
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
>
>
>
> > the article is pretty much amature hour IMHO
>
> =v= Well, the guy was upfront about his amateur status when he
> came to this list asking for information.  What bothers me is
> that he was given access to resources that would have made his
> article more accurate, and apparently ignored them.
>
> =v= I could tell by his second inquiry that he wanted to focus
> on the whiz! bang! pow! controversial! stuff, and warned that
> it would lead to dishonestly unrepresentative reporting.  And
> lo, it came to pass.
>    <_Jym_>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
> http://webmail.aol.com
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:14:28 -0500 (EST)
> From: Hiroyuki G Yamada <hyamada at MIT.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64L.0801071909540.12160 at vinegar-pot.mit.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Keep In mind though, that MIT wasn't in session at this point -- Finals
> were over the 21st and most people students gone by the 22nd or 23rd. The
> remaining grad students etc were probably a minuscule proportion of the
> usual traffic in the infinite corridor and this was probably taken into
> consideration when the ride through MIT was suggested. Also, with only 30
> riders (if the article is to be trusted on that count) it also wouldn't
> have been as bad. Probably not the best of ideas on a friday in the middle
> of term, with 300+ riders, to go traipsing through a corridor, but in that
> particular instance, I can't imagine that it was too much trouble.
>
> As for the article, it sounds like he wanted to get as "good" of an
> article out (his standard for good might have been exciting or "wham pow,"
> vs an actual editorially accurate and well-written piece) with as little
> work -- just trolling around on wikipedia could have given him the
> information he posted. Given how responsive Boston's CM list was, it
> certainly seems that he could have gotten a more in-depth look at our
> particular ride.
>
> (Perhaps written up a blurb about the arrest over at Harvard Square in the
> (I think) October ride?)
>
> --Yuki
>
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2008, Jon Ramos wrote:
>
> > I missed the December ride due to my broken right hand, (bicycle
> accident, hit by a car on Tremont St) but I have to say that I am appalled
> that the group rode through a building.  Corking traffic, and giving angry
> motorists 'the business' is one thing, because we have a right to be there
> etc, etc... but inside a building?  that's just not cool.  There is no place
> in a corridor for a pedestrian to get out of the way from a bicycle, in that
> situation we are analogous to cars driving down bike lanes & sidewalks.  We
> dont have a right to be there.  The December ride sounds like it may have
> been fun, but really it just made CM riders look like real a-holes.
> >
> > - Jon
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Dan Barrett <dbx at pobox.com>
> > To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 12:15:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> >
> > The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star
> > Market in Porter Square.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> > list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> > To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >
> >
> >
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
>
> End of Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
> *************************************************
>
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From antony.rudie at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 06:26:44 2008
From: antony.rudie at gmail.com (Antony Rudie)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:26:44 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] MIT ride
Message-ID: <ac58b8530801080326jc36e217p34dc9c4353384b61@mail.gmail.com>

I had grave misgivings as we climbed up the steps, but as the last person
said, it really didn't seem to bother anyone.  And yeah, the person who
didn't even look up from the laptop was funny.  I second the "let's not do
it again" sentiment, (the sound-bite is unfortunate:  CM rides through MIT
building) but I really don't think we alienated anyone while we were
there.   -ARR
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From jontramos at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  8 08:56:56 2008
From: jontramos at yahoo.com (Jon Ramos)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 05:56:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
Message-ID: <66808.14093.qm@web50002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Regardless of how wide the corridor, how slow you were going, or how f-ing magical YOU may have thought it was; I'm sure there were irritated people who felt too intimidated to stand up to 20-30 rouge cyclists pedaling down their college corridor.  I know I would be.  It is very disrespectful to bike through an institution's private interior and CM has no business being there.  Stick to the PUBLIC roads.  



----- Original Message ----
From: Philip Stango <prstango at gmail.com>
To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 1:34:57 AM
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3

Rather than make  judgments about the ride through the MIT corridor  based on speculation, how about taking an account from someone who was there. We went through in single file, and the corridor was quite wide, likely more than 8-10 feet. There was plenty of room for "pedestrians to get out of the way from a bicycle."  Passers-by strolled calmly in the opposite direction as we pedaled by, single file, at a leisurely pace, while others hardly looked up from their laptops as they sat at benches. It was much more magical/whimsical than anything else. Given our small numbers and the small number of passers-by, it was very much dissimilar to a car going down a sidewalk. Not something to be repeated with a larger group or during the semester, but certainly a treat for all involved, I reckon. 


On Jan 7, 2008 7:14 PM, <bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org> wrote:

Send Bostoncriticalmass mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Bostoncriticalmass digest..."


Today's Topics: 

  1. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
     (Dan Barrett)
  2. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... (Ari Pollak)
  3. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... (Jon Ramos) 
  4. Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Jym Dyer)
  5. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
     (Adam Rosi-Kessel)
  6. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Ari Pollak) 
  7. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Adam Shoop)
  8. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Jym Dyer)
  9. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
     ( thom3 at aol.com)
 10. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
     (Hiroyuki G Yamada)


---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:15:19 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dan Barrett" <dbx at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... 
To: bostoncriticalmass at bostoncriticalmass.org
Message-ID:
       < 48126.208.27.111.121.1199726119.squirrel at webmail.offthehill.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star
Market in Porter Square. 



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:26:10 -0500
From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... 
To: thom3 at aol.com
Cc: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Message-ID: < 1199726770.17290.64.camel at apollak.lab.compete.com>
Content-Type: text/plain

I don't think there was ever a followup on the list, and I think I was
too far ahead on that ride to notice the arrest.

On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 12:22 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> Oh yeah, an oldie but a goodie.....
>
> do you recall what ever happened to the person?
>
>
> Tom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
> To: thom3 at aol.com
> Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:18 pm 
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/pipermail/bostoncriticalmass/2006-April/001172.html 
>
> I suppose that could've been State Police activity since the post did
> not specify, but still...
>
> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 11:49 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> > can you elaborate as to why it is an understatement?
>
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! 
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:19:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Jon Ramos <jontramos at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... 
To: dbx at pobox.com, list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Message-ID: <987987.84829.qm at web50008.mail.re2.yahoo.com >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I missed the December ride due to my broken right hand, (bicycle accident, hit by a car on Tremont St) but I have to say that I am appalled that the group rode through a building.  Corking traffic, and giving angry motorists 'the business' is one thing, because we have a right to be there etc, etc... but inside a building?  that's just not cool.  There is no place in a corridor for a pedestrian to get out of the way from a bicycle, in that situation we are analogous to cars driving down bike lanes & sidewalks.  We dont have a right to be there.  The December ride sounds like it may have been fun, but really it just made CM riders look like real a-holes. 

- Jon


----- Original Message ----
From: Dan Barrett <dbx at pobox.com>
To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 12:15:19 PM 
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....

The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star
Market in Porter Square.

_______________________________________________ 
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


     ____________________________________________________________________________________ 
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:42:25 -0800
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... 
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Message-ID: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828083 at econet.org>

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_mass/

=v= As feared, an article hopped up on an unrepresentative 
sampling of controversies and riddled with inaccuracies.

| ... and about 300 other cities ...

=1= Wow, good thing I pointed the guy to the www.critical-mass.org 
website which documents 450 cities.

| ... or just blocking traffic.

=2= Um, BEING traffic.  Editorialize much?

| Critical Mass has caused contention in many communities - from
| New York, where hundreds of massers were arrested at the 2004 
| Republican National Convention, to San Francisco, where Mayor
| Willie Brown declared war on the group.

=3= Editorialize much about who caused what?  I suppose NYC's
August 2004 ride (which a fact-checker should have noticed was 
*before* the RNC) "caused" 1800 people to be arrested over the
next weekend, too, huh?

=4= The police attack on the July 1997 ride in San Francisco was
indeed Willie Brown declaring war on us, but the "cause" was a 
massive traffic jam on the day of the June 1997 ride, which was
underway before the ride even began, then blamed on the ride
after the fact.

| The group's activities have spawned the term "U-lock justice" 

=5= Wrong.  That term goes back at least to the 1980s.
   <_Jym_>






------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:55:59 -0500
From: Adam Rosi-Kessel < adam at rosi-kessel.org>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org >
Message-ID: <478275BF.8060203 at rosi-kessel.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Jym Dyer wrote:
> | The group's activities have spawned the term "U-lock justice" 
> =5= Wrong.  That term goes back at least to the 1980s.

And, just for the record, I never mentioned "civil disobedience." And my
name is spelled with one L.


------------------------------ 

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:05:44 -0500
From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Message-ID: <1199732744.17290.86.camel at apollak.lab.compete.com >
Content-Type: text/plain

Sounds like a letter to the editor is in order.

On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 13:55 -0500, Adam Rosi-Kessel wrote:
> And, just for the record, I never mentioned "civil disobedience." And my 
> name is spelled with one L.



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:19:40 -0500
From: "Adam Shoop" <info at adamshoop.org >
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
To: "'Boston Critical Mass'" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Message-ID: <00c001c85162$41ca9720$6402a8c0 at DG9BNJ41>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

There are some pertinent comments on the Boston Fixed Gear forums as well.

Here's the main one: 

http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=434&page=1

And then one on what would make a better article: 

http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=435&page=1

-AS



------------------------------ 

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:44:06 -0800
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
To: Boston CM < list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Message-ID: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828ef8 at econet.org>

> the article is pretty much amature hour IMHO 

=v= Well, the guy was upfront about his amateur status when he
came to this list asking for information.  What bothers me is
that he was given access to resources that would have made his
article more accurate, and apparently ignored them. 

=v= I could tell by his second inquiry that he wanted to focus
on the whiz! bang! pow! controversial! stuff, and warned that
it would lead to dishonestly unrepresentative reporting.  And
lo, it came to pass. 
   <_Jym_>



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:50:45 -0500
From: thom3 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... 
To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org, list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Message-ID: < 8CA1F7DBA6649B6-F88-1074 at webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

right RE his status and I agree he was immensely lazy in his ability to do research. I am just amazed that The Boston Globe let this shit fly. 

I also think the POV is weird and sounds like the guy?drove a car along side the group and occassiobnally stops and asked "What are you feeling, what are you thinking?"

It's total crap, and why did he not wait til the thaw when a more "typical"/robust CM ride happens.... 


Tom


-----Original Message-----
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org >
Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 3:44 pm
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...



> the article is pretty much amature hour IMHO

=v= Well, the guy was upfront about his amateur status when he 
came to this list asking for information.  What bothers me is
that he was given access to resources that would have made his
article more accurate, and apparently ignored them.

=v= I could tell by his second inquiry that he wanted to focus 
on the whiz! bang! pow! controversial! stuff, and warned that
it would lead to dishonestly unrepresentative reporting.  And
lo, it came to pass.
   <_Jym_>

_______________________________________________ 
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:14:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Hiroyuki G Yamada < hyamada at MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org >
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64L.0801071909540.12160 at vinegar-pot.mit.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed 

Keep In mind though, that MIT wasn't in session at this point -- Finals
were over the 21st and most people students gone by the 22nd or 23rd. The
remaining grad students etc were probably a minuscule proportion of the 
usual traffic in the infinite corridor and this was probably taken into
consideration when the ride through MIT was suggested. Also, with only 30
riders (if the article is to be trusted on that count) it also wouldn't 
have been as bad. Probably not the best of ideas on a friday in the middle
of term, with 300+ riders, to go traipsing through a corridor, but in that
particular instance, I can't imagine that it was too much trouble. 

As for the article, it sounds like he wanted to get as "good" of an
article out (his standard for good might have been exciting or "wham pow,"
vs an actual editorially accurate and well-written piece) with as little 
work -- just trolling around on wikipedia could have given him the
information he posted. Given how responsive Boston's CM list was, it
certainly seems that he could have gotten a more in-depth look at our
particular ride.

(Perhaps written up a blurb about the arrest over at Harvard Square in the
(I think) October ride?)

--Yuki

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008, Jon Ramos wrote:

> I missed the December ride due to my broken right hand, (bicycle accident, hit by a car on Tremont St) but I have to say that I am appalled that the group rode through a building.  Corking traffic, and giving angry motorists 'the business' is one thing, because we have a right to be there etc, etc... but inside a building?  that's just not cool.  There is no place in a corridor for a pedestrian to get out of the way from a bicycle, in that situation we are analogous to cars driving down bike lanes & sidewalks.  We dont have a right to be there.  The December ride sounds like it may have been fun, but really it just made CM riders look like real a-holes. 
>
> - Jon
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dan Barrett <dbx at pobox.com>
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org 
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 12:15:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>
> The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star 
> Market in Porter Square.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org 
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org 
>
>
>      ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org 
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list

End of Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
*************************************************


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From Anne.Wolfe at Theaa.com  Tue Jan  8 09:04:13 2008
From: Anne.Wolfe at Theaa.com (Wolfe, Anne)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:04:13 -0000
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
References: <66808.14093.qm@web50002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <251A9529EBCF1F4BA443A2FCD83410E7011A89FC@aa-exb02.theaa.local>

I have to concur.  I felt the statement that there was "plenty of room
for pedestrians to get out of the way of a cyclist" is the same argument
that "there's plenty of room for bikes to get out of the way of cars"
argument that gets CM hot under the collar.

 

Equally the implication that because CM IS traffic (and indeed it is),
it somehow cannot be blocking traffic.  Traffic can block traffic, and
indeed does quite frequently.  If bike traffic blocked other bike
traffic your moral high ground would be lost.  And yet somehow, you feel
that because bike traffic blocks motor traffic this furthers the
argument for people to give us better recognition as traffic.  

 

I love cycling.  I love cycling through the streets of Boston and
Cambridge when I can.  But these same arguments go around every time
something gets written, and people seem to feel that unless it is
entirely uncritical of CM it is somehow against them.  I don't think it
was a particularly great article, but I'm not surprised the Globe let it
fly.  "Controversial group, knowing journalist is in middle and writing
about it, opts to trek through corridors on private property."  That
kind of headline sells, I'm afraid.  And almost entirely at CM's
expense.  It certainly isn't going to let the MIT or Cambridge police
ease up on us at all. 

 

________________________________

From: bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org
[mailto:bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org] On Behalf Of
Jon Ramos
Sent: 08 January 2008 13:57
To: Boston Critical Mass
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3

 

Regardless of how wide the corridor, how slow you were going, or how
f-ing magical YOU may have thought it was; I'm sure there were irritated
people who felt too intimidated to stand up to 20-30 rouge cyclists
pedaling down their college corridor.  I know I would be.  It is very
disrespectful to bike through an institution's private interior and CM
has no business being there.  Stick to the PUBLIC roads.  

 

----- Original Message ----
From: Philip Stango <prstango at gmail.com>
To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 1:34:57 AM
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3

Rather than make  judgments about the ride through the MIT corridor
based on speculation, how about taking an account from someone who was
there. We went through in single file, and the corridor was quite wide,
likely more than 8-10 feet. There was plenty of room for "pedestrians to
get out of the way from a bicycle."  Passers-by strolled calmly in the
opposite direction as we pedaled by, single file, at a leisurely pace,
while others hardly looked up from their laptops as they sat at benches.
It was much more magical/whimsical than anything else. Given our small
numbers and the small number of passers-by, it was very much dissimilar
to a car going down a sidewalk. Not something to be repeated with a
larger group or during the semester, but certainly a treat for all
involved, I reckon. 

On Jan 7, 2008 7:14 PM,
<bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org> wrote:

Send Bostoncriticalmass mailing list submissions to
       bostoncriticalmass at bostoncriticalmass.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit 
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Bostoncriticalmass digest..."


Today's Topics: 

  1. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
     (Dan Barrett)
  2. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... (Ari Pollak)
  3. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... (Jon Ramos) 
  4. Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Jym Dyer)
  5. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
     (Adam Rosi-Kessel)
  6. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Ari Pollak) 
  7. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Adam Shoop)
  8. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Jym Dyer)
  9. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
     ( thom3 at aol.com)
 10. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
     (Hiroyuki G Yamada)


---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:15:19 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dan Barrett" <dbx at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... 
To: bostoncriticalmass at bostoncriticalmass.org
Message-ID:
       < 48126.208.27.111.121.1199726119.squirrel at webmail.offthehill.org
<mailto:48126.208.27.111.121.1199726119.squirrel at webmail.offthehill.org>
>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star
Market in Porter Square. 



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:26:10 -0500
From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... 
To: thom3 at aol.com
Cc: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Message-ID: < 1199726770.17290.64.camel at apollak.lab.compete.com
<mailto:1199726770.17290.64.camel at apollak.lab.compete.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain

I don't think there was ever a followup on the list, and I think I was
too far ahead on that ride to notice the arrest.

On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 12:22 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> Oh yeah, an oldie but a goodie.....
>
> do you recall what ever happened to the person?
>
>
> Tom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
> To: thom3 at aol.com
> Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:18 pm 
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>
>
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/pipermail/bostoncriticalmass/2006-April/00
1172.html 
>
> I suppose that could've been State Police activity since the post did
> not specify, but still...
>
> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 11:49 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> > can you elaborate as to why it is an understatement?
>
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! 
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:19:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Jon Ramos <jontramos at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... 
To: dbx at pobox.com, list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Message-ID: <987987.84829.qm at web50008.mail.re2.yahoo.com >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I missed the December ride due to my broken right hand, (bicycle
accident, hit by a car on Tremont St) but I have to say that I am
appalled that the group rode through a building.  Corking traffic, and
giving angry motorists 'the business' is one thing, because we have a
right to be there etc, etc... but inside a building?  that's just not
cool.  There is no place in a corridor for a pedestrian to get out of
the way from a bicycle, in that situation we are analogous to cars
driving down bike lanes & sidewalks.  We dont have a right to be there.
The December ride sounds like it may have been fun, but really it just
made CM riders look like real a-holes. 

- Jon


----- Original Message ----
From: Dan Barrett <dbx at pobox.com>
To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 12:15:19 PM 
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....

The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the Star
Market in Porter Square.

_______________________________________________ 
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


 
________________________________________________________________________
____________ 
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http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:42:25 -0800
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... 
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Message-ID: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828083 at econet.org>

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_
mass/

=v= As feared, an article hopped up on an unrepresentative 
sampling of controversies and riddled with inaccuracies.

| ... and about 300 other cities ...

=1= Wow, good thing I pointed the guy to the www.critical-mass.org
<http://www.critical-mass.org/> 
website which documents 450 cities.

| ... or just blocking traffic.

=2= Um, BEING traffic.  Editorialize much?

| Critical Mass has caused contention in many communities - from
| New York, where hundreds of massers were arrested at the 2004 
| Republican National Convention, to San Francisco, where Mayor
| Willie Brown declared war on the group.

=3= Editorialize much about who caused what?  I suppose NYC's
August 2004 ride (which a fact-checker should have noticed was 
*before* the RNC) "caused" 1800 people to be arrested over the
next weekend, too, huh?

=4= The police attack on the July 1997 ride in San Francisco was
indeed Willie Brown declaring war on us, but the "cause" was a 
massive traffic jam on the day of the June 1997 ride, which was
underway before the ride even began, then blamed on the ride
after the fact.

| The group's activities have spawned the term "U-lock justice" 

=5= Wrong.  That term goes back at least to the 1980s.
   <_Jym_>






------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:55:59 -0500
From: Adam Rosi-Kessel < adam at rosi-kessel.org>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org >
Message-ID: <478275BF.8060203 at rosi-kessel.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Jym Dyer wrote:
> | The group's activities have spawned the term "U-lock justice" 
> =5= Wrong.  That term goes back at least to the 1980s.

And, just for the record, I never mentioned "civil disobedience." And my
name is spelled with one L.


------------------------------ 

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:05:44 -0500
From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Message-ID: <1199732744.17290.86.camel at apollak.lab.compete.com >
Content-Type: text/plain

Sounds like a letter to the editor is in order.

On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 13:55 -0500, Adam Rosi-Kessel wrote:
> And, just for the record, I never mentioned "civil disobedience." And
my 
> name is spelled with one L.



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:19:40 -0500
From: "Adam Shoop" <info at adamshoop.org >
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
To: "'Boston Critical Mass'" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Message-ID: <00c001c85162$41ca9720$6402a8c0 at DG9BNJ41>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

There are some pertinent comments on the Boston Fixed Gear forums as
well.

Here's the main one: 

http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=434&page=1

And then one on what would make a better article: 

http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=435&page=1

-AS



------------------------------ 

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:44:06 -0800
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
To: Boston CM < list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Message-ID: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828ef8 at econet.org>

> the article is pretty much amature hour IMHO 

=v= Well, the guy was upfront about his amateur status when he
came to this list asking for information.  What bothers me is
that he was given access to resources that would have made his
article more accurate, and apparently ignored them. 

=v= I could tell by his second inquiry that he wanted to focus
on the whiz! bang! pow! controversial! stuff, and warned that
it would lead to dishonestly unrepresentative reporting.  And
lo, it came to pass. 
   <_Jym_>



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:50:45 -0500
From: thom3 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... 
To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org, list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Message-ID: < 8CA1F7DBA6649B6-F88-1074 at webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com
<mailto:8CA1F7DBA6649B6-F88-1074 at webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

right RE his status and I agree he was immensely lazy in his ability to
do research. I am just amazed that The Boston Globe let this shit fly. 

I also think the POV is weird and sounds like the guy?drove a car along
side the group and occassiobnally stops and asked "What are you feeling,
what are you thinking?"

It's total crap, and why did he not wait til the thaw when a more
"typical"/robust CM ride happens.... 


Tom


-----Original Message-----
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org >
Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 3:44 pm
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...



> the article is pretty much amature hour IMHO

=v= Well, the guy was upfront about his amateur status when he 
came to this list asking for information.  What bothers me is
that he was given access to resources that would have made his
article more accurate, and apparently ignored them.

=v= I could tell by his second inquiry that he wanted to focus 
on the whiz! bang! pow! controversial! stuff, and warned that
it would lead to dishonestly unrepresentative reporting.  And
lo, it came to pass.
   <_Jym_>

_______________________________________________ 
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:14:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Hiroyuki G Yamada < hyamada at MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org >
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64L.0801071909540.12160 at vinegar-pot.mit.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed 

Keep In mind though, that MIT wasn't in session at this point -- Finals
were over the 21st and most people students gone by the 22nd or 23rd.
The
remaining grad students etc were probably a minuscule proportion of the 
usual traffic in the infinite corridor and this was probably taken into
consideration when the ride through MIT was suggested. Also, with only
30
riders (if the article is to be trusted on that count) it also wouldn't 
have been as bad. Probably not the best of ideas on a friday in the
middle
of term, with 300+ riders, to go traipsing through a corridor, but in
that
particular instance, I can't imagine that it was too much trouble. 

As for the article, it sounds like he wanted to get as "good" of an
article out (his standard for good might have been exciting or "wham
pow,"
vs an actual editorially accurate and well-written piece) with as little

work -- just trolling around on wikipedia could have given him the
information he posted. Given how responsive Boston's CM list was, it
certainly seems that he could have gotten a more in-depth look at our
particular ride.

(Perhaps written up a blurb about the arrest over at Harvard Square in
the
(I think) October ride?)

--Yuki

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008, Jon Ramos wrote:

> I missed the December ride due to my broken right hand, (bicycle
accident, hit by a car on Tremont St) but I have to say that I am
appalled that the group rode through a building.  Corking traffic, and
giving angry motorists 'the business' is one thing, because we have a
right to be there etc, etc... but inside a building?  that's just not
cool.  There is no place in a corridor for a pedestrian to get out of
the way from a bicycle, in that situation we are analogous to cars
driving down bike lanes & sidewalks.  We dont have a right to be there.
The December ride sounds like it may have been fun, but really it just
made CM riders look like real a-holes. 
>
> - Jon
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dan Barrett <dbx at pobox.com>
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org 
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 12:15:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>
> The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the
Star 
> Market in Porter Square.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org 
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org 
>
>
>
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From estratton.apple at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 09:42:27 2008
From: estratton.apple at gmail.com (Eric A. Stratton)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:42:27 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <251A9529EBCF1F4BA443A2FCD83410E7011A89FC@aa-exb02.theaa.local>
References: <66808.14093.qm@web50002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<251A9529EBCF1F4BA443A2FCD83410E7011A89FC@aa-exb02.theaa.local>
Message-ID: <123110E3-5F9B-43E3-BE8C-B3450BECC215@gmail.com>

Maybe those MIT kids will hack a velodrome or bikelanes for us ;-)

Ya never know.

-E

PS:  Sorry for the hi-jack

On Jan 8, 2008, at 9:04 AM, Wolfe, Anne wrote:

> I have to concur.  I felt the statement that there was ?plenty of  
> room for pedestrians to get out of the way of a cyclist? is the same  
> argument that ?there?s plenty of room for bikes to get out of the  
> way of cars? argument that gets CM hot under the collar.
>
> Equally the implication that because CM IS traffic (and indeed it  
> is), it somehow cannot be blocking traffic.  Traffic can block  
> traffic, and indeed does quite frequently.  If bike traffic blocked  
> other bike traffic your moral high ground would be lost.  And yet  
> somehow, you feel that because bike traffic blocks motor traffic  
> this furthers the argument for people to give us better recognition  
> as traffic.
>
> I love cycling.  I love cycling through the streets of Boston and  
> Cambridge when I can.  But these same arguments go around every time  
> something gets written, and people seem to feel that unless it is  
> entirely uncritical of CM it is somehow against them.  I don?t think  
> it was a particularly great article, but I?m not surprised the Globe  
> let it fly.  ?Controversial group, knowing journalist is in middle  
> and writing about it, opts to trek through corridors on private  
> property.?  That kind of headline sells, I?m afraid.  And almost  
> entirely at CM?s expense.  It certainly isn?t going to let the MIT  
> or Cambridge police ease up on us at all.
>
> From: bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org [mailto:bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org 
> ] On Behalf Of Jon Ramos
> Sent: 08 January 2008 13:57
> To: Boston Critical Mass
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
>
> Regardless of how wide the corridor, how slow you were going, or how  
> f-ing magical YOU may have thought it was; I'm sure there were  
> irritated people who felt too intimidated to stand up to 20-30 rouge  
> cyclists pedaling down their college corridor.  I know I would be.   
> It is very disrespectful to bike through an institution's private  
> interior and CM has no business being there.  Stick to the PUBLIC  
> roads.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Philip Stango <prstango at gmail.com>
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 1:34:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
>
> Rather than make  judgments about the ride through the MIT corridor   
> based on speculation, how about taking an account from someone who  
> was there. We went through in single file, and the corridor was  
> quite wide, likely more than 8-10 feet. There was plenty of room for  
> "pedestrians to get out of the way from a bicycle."  Passers-by  
> strolled calmly in the opposite direction as we pedaled by, single  
> file, at a leisurely pace, while others hardly looked up from their  
> laptops as they sat at benches. It was much more magical/whimsical  
> than anything else. Given our small numbers and the small number of  
> passers-by, it was very much dissimilar to a car going down a  
> sidewalk. Not something to be repeated with a larger group or during  
> the semester, but certainly a treat for all involved, I reckon.
> On Jan 7, 2008 7:14 PM, <bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org 
> > wrote:
> Send Bostoncriticalmass mailing list submissions to
>        bostoncriticalmass at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://lists.bostoncoop.net/mailman/listinfo/bostoncriticalmass
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        bostoncriticalmass-request at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         bostoncriticalmass-owner at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Bostoncriticalmass digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>      (Dan Barrett)
>   2. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... (Ari  
> Pollak)
>   3. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and.... (Jon Ramos)
>   4. Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Jym Dyer)
>   5. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
>      (Adam Rosi-Kessel)
>   6. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Ari  
> Pollak)
>   7. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Adam  
> Shoop)
>   8. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ... (Jym Dyer)
>   9. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
>      ( thom3 at aol.com)
>  10. Re: Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>      (Hiroyuki G Yamada)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:15:19 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Dan Barrett" <dbx at pobox.com>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> To: bostoncriticalmass at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID:
>        < 48126.208.27.111.121.1199726119.squirrel at webmail.offthehill.org 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the  
> Star
> Market in Porter Square.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:26:10 -0500
> From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> To: thom3 at aol.com
> Cc: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID: < 1199726770.17290.64.camel at apollak.lab.compete.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> I don't think there was ever a followup on the list, and I think I was
> too far ahead on that ride to notice the arrest.
>
> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 12:22 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> > Oh yeah, an oldie but a goodie.....
> >
> > do you recall what ever happened to the person?
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
> > To: thom3 at aol.com
> > Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 12:18 pm
> > Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT  
> and....
> >
> > http://bostoncriticalmass.org/pipermail/bostoncriticalmass/2006-April/001172.html
> >
> > I suppose that could've been State Police activity since the post  
> did
> > not specify, but still...
> >
> > On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 11:49 -0500, thom3 at aol.com wrote:
> > > can you elaborate as to why it is an understatement?
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >  
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:19:06 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jon Ramos <jontramos at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> To: dbx at pobox.com, list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID: <987987.84829.qm at web50008.mail.re2.yahoo.com >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I missed the December ride due to my broken right hand, (bicycle  
> accident, hit by a car on Tremont St) but I have to say that I am  
> appalled that the group rode through a building.  Corking traffic,  
> and giving angry motorists 'the business' is one thing, because we  
> have a right to be there etc, etc... but inside a building?  that's  
> just not cool.  There is no place in a corridor for a pedestrian to  
> get out of the way from a bicycle, in that situation we are  
> analogous to cars driving down bike lanes & sidewalks.  We dont have  
> a right to be there.  The December ride sounds like it may have been  
> fun, but really it just made CM riders look like real a-holes.
>
> - Jon
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dan Barrett <dbx at pobox.com>
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 12:15:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
>
> The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the  
> Star
> Market in Porter Square.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
>
>       
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:42:25 -0800
> From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
> Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828083 at econet.org>
>
> http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/06/achieving_critical_mass/
>
> =v= As feared, an article hopped up on an unrepresentative
> sampling of controversies and riddled with inaccuracies.
>
> | ... and about 300 other cities ...
>
> =1= Wow, good thing I pointed the guy to the www.critical-mass.org
> website which documents 450 cities.
>
> | ... or just blocking traffic.
>
> =2= Um, BEING traffic.  Editorialize much?
>
> | Critical Mass has caused contention in many communities - from
> | New York, where hundreds of massers were arrested at the 2004
> | Republican National Convention, to San Francisco, where Mayor
> | Willie Brown declared war on the group.
>
> =3= Editorialize much about who caused what?  I suppose NYC's
> August 2004 ride (which a fact-checker should have noticed was
> *before* the RNC) "caused" 1800 people to be arrested over the
> next weekend, too, huh?
>
> =4= The police attack on the July 1997 ride in San Francisco was
> indeed Willie Brown declaring war on us, but the "cause" was a
> massive traffic jam on the day of the June 1997 ride, which was
> underway before the ride even began, then blamed on the ride
> after the fact.
>
> | The group's activities have spawned the term "U-lock justice"
>
> =5= Wrong.  That term goes back at least to the 1980s.
>    <_Jym_>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:55:59 -0500
> From: Adam Rosi-Kessel < adam at rosi-kessel.org>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org >
> Message-ID: <478275BF.8060203 at rosi-kessel.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Jym Dyer wrote:
> > | The group's activities have spawned the term "U-lock justice"
> > =5= Wrong.  That term goes back at least to the 1980s.
>
> And, just for the record, I never mentioned "civil disobedience."  
> And my
> name is spelled with one L.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:05:44 -0500
> From: Ari Pollak <ajp at aripollak.com>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <1199732744.17290.86.camel at apollak.lab.compete.com >
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Sounds like a letter to the editor is in order.
>
> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 13:55 -0500, Adam Rosi-Kessel wrote:
> > And, just for the record, I never mentioned "civil disobedience."  
> And my
> > name is spelled with one L.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:19:40 -0500
> From: "Adam Shoop" <info at adamshoop.org >
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: "'Boston Critical Mass'" <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <00c001c85162$41ca9720$6402a8c0 at DG9BNJ41>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> There are some pertinent comments on the Boston Fixed Gear forums as  
> well.
>
> Here's the main one:
>
> http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=434&page=1
>
> And then one on what would make a better article:
>
> http://bostonfixed.us/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=435&page=1
>
> -AS
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:44:06 -0800
> From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: Boston CM < list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Message-ID: <Jym.07Jan2008.47828ef8 at econet.org>
>
> > the article is pretty much amature hour IMHO
>
> =v= Well, the guy was upfront about his amateur status when he
> came to this list asking for information.  What bothers me is
> that he was given access to resources that would have made his
> article more accurate, and apparently ignored them.
>
> =v= I could tell by his second inquiry that he wanted to focus
> on the whiz! bang! pow! controversial! stuff, and warned that
> it would lead to dishonestly unrepresentative reporting.  And
> lo, it came to pass.
>    <_Jym_>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:50:45 -0500
> From: thom3 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org, list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> Message-ID: < 8CA1F7DBA6649B6-F88-1074 at webmail-da21.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> right RE his status and I agree he was immensely lazy in his ability  
> to do research. I am just amazed that The Boston Globe let this shit  
> fly.
>
> I also think the POV is weird and sounds like the guy?drove a car  
> along side the group and occassiobnally stops and asked "What are  
> you feeling, what are you thinking?"
>
> It's total crap, and why did he not wait til the thaw when a more  
> "typical"/robust CM ride happens....
>
>
> Tom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
> To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org >
> Sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 3:44 pm
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at the MSM ...
>
>
>
> > the article is pretty much amature hour IMHO
>
> =v= Well, the guy was upfront about his amateur status when he
> came to this list asking for information.  What bothers me is
> that he was given access to resources that would have made his
> article more accurate, and apparently ignored them.
>
> =v= I could tell by his second inquiry that he wanted to focus
> on the whiz! bang! pow! controversial! stuff, and warned that
> it would lead to dishonestly unrepresentative reporting.  And
> lo, it came to pass.
>    <_Jym_>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:14:28 -0500 (EST)
> From: Hiroyuki G Yamada < hyamada at MIT.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT and....
> To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org >
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64L.0801071909540.12160 at vinegar-pot.mit.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Keep In mind though, that MIT wasn't in session at this point --  
> Finals
> were over the 21st and most people students gone by the 22nd or  
> 23rd. The
> remaining grad students etc were probably a minuscule proportion of  
> the
> usual traffic in the infinite corridor and this was probably taken  
> into
> consideration when the ride through MIT was suggested. Also, with  
> only 30
> riders (if the article is to be trusted on that count) it also  
> wouldn't
> have been as bad. Probably not the best of ideas on a friday in the  
> middle
> of term, with 300+ riders, to go traipsing through a corridor, but  
> in that
> particular instance, I can't imagine that it was too much trouble.
>
> As for the article, it sounds like he wanted to get as "good" of an
> article out (his standard for good might have been exciting or "wham  
> pow,"
> vs an actual editorially accurate and well-written piece) with as  
> little
> work -- just trolling around on wikipedia could have given him the
> information he posted. Given how responsive Boston's CM list was, it
> certainly seems that he could have gotten a more in-depth look at our
> particular ride.
>
> (Perhaps written up a blurb about the arrest over at Harvard Square  
> in the
> (I think) October ride?)
>
> --Yuki
>
> On Mon, 7 Jan 2008, Jon Ramos wrote:
>
> > I missed the December ride due to my broken right hand, (bicycle  
> accident, hit by a car on Tremont St) but I have to say that I am  
> appalled that the group rode through a building.  Corking traffic,  
> and giving angry motorists 'the business' is one thing, because we  
> have a right to be there etc, etc... but inside a building?  that's  
> just not cool.  There is no place in a corridor for a pedestrian to  
> get out of the way from a bicycle, in that situation we are  
> analogous to cars driving down bike lanes & sidewalks.  We dont have  
> a right to be there.  The December ride sounds like it may have been  
> fun, but really it just made CM riders look like real a-holes.
> >
> > - Jon
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Dan Barrett <dbx at pobox.com>
> > To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > Sent: Monday, January 7, 2008 12:15:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Thoughts, or what was the thinking at MIT  
> and....
> >
> > The article reminded me of my long-held desire to ride through the  
> Star
> > Market in Porter Square.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> > list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> > To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >
> >
> >       
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
>
> End of Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
> *************************************************
>
>
>
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From ThoM3 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 09:59:56 2008
From: ThoM3 at aol.com (ThoM3 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:59:56 EST
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
Message-ID: <bfc.2923e4b5.34b4e9ec@aol.com>

 
That was the point I was trying to make earlier and more subtly; is this  
"stunt" in the realm of bicycle advocacy and if not, does it diminish CM's  
perceived role in such?
 
 
In a message dated 1/8/2008 8:57:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
jontramos at yahoo.com writes:

Regardless of how wide the corridor, how slow you were going, or  how f-ing 
magical YOU may have thought it was; I'm sure there were  irritated people who 
felt too intimidated to stand up to 20-30 rouge cyclists  pedaling down their 
college corridor.  I know I would be.  It  is very disrespectful to bike 
through an institution's private  interior and CM has no business being there.  
Stick to the PUBLIC  roads.  


 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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From leepeters at gis.net  Tue Jan  8 10:13:51 2008
From: leepeters at gis.net (Lee Peters)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:13:51 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
References: <bfc.2923e4b5.34b4e9ec@aol.com>
Message-ID: <009801c85209$13881d90$6564a8c0@Unit2>

Without leaders or members and set goals, CM is not really an advocacy group at all.  It is a party on wheels.  

Please do not think it is an advocacy group without (you yourself) shaping it that way.  No one has really taken CM beyond anything but a party - and all I have heard are people under the illusion that it is advocacy and complained when it didn't live up to that standard.  I don't want to spoil your involvement, but CM would need substantial initiative to change.

The closest we have come to advocacy is the occasional flyer, sign affixed to bike, or route planning for a specific purpose.

(for the record, I wish too that CM was 'nicer'.)



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ThoM3 at aol.com 
  To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3


  That was the point I was trying to make earlier and more subtly; is this "stunt" in the realm of bicycle advocacy and if not, does it diminish CM's perceived role in such?


  In a message dated 1/8/2008 8:57:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, jontramos at yahoo.com writes:
    Regardless of how wide the corridor, how slow you were going, or how f-ing magical YOU may have thought it was; I'm sure there were irritated people who felt too intimidated to stand up to 20-30 rouge cyclists pedaling down their college corridor.  I know I would be.  It is very disrespectful to bike through an institution's private interior and CM has no business being there.  Stick to the PUBLIC roads.  



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From Anne.Wolfe at Theaa.com  Tue Jan  8 10:16:00 2008
From: Anne.Wolfe at Theaa.com (Wolfe, Anne)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:16:00 -0000
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
References: <bfc.2923e4b5.34b4e9ec@aol.com>
	<009801c85209$13881d90$6564a8c0@Unit2>
Message-ID: <251A9529EBCF1F4BA443A2FCD83410E7011A8A0A@aa-exb02.theaa.local>

If it is just a party on wheels, why care what kind of press it gets?
Or what people think of it?  

 

I think Thom's point was that it is perceived as an advocacy group.  For
what, no one is quite sure, least of all CM for the points you just
stated.  But it is perceived as one.  

 

Ho hum, back to work for the Automobile Association, which encourages us
to bike to work. Seems like a contradiction until you see all the bike
route guides we publish.........

 

________________________________

From: bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org
[mailto:bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org] On Behalf Of
Lee Peters
Sent: 08 January 2008 15:14
To: Boston Critical Mass
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3

 

Without leaders or members and set goals, CM is not really an advocacy
group at all.  It is a party on wheels.  

 

Please do not think it is an advocacy group without (you yourself)
shaping it that way.  No one has really taken CM beyond anything but a
party - and all I have heard are people under the illusion that it is
advocacy and complained when it didn't live up to that standard.  I
don't want to spoil your involvement, but CM would need substantial
initiative to change.

 

The closest we have come to advocacy is the occasional flyer, sign
affixed to bike, or route planning for a specific purpose.

 

(for the record, I wish too that CM was 'nicer'.)

 

 

 

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: ThoM3 at aol.com 

	To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org 

	Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:59 AM

	Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3

	 

	That was the point I was trying to make earlier and more subtly;
is this "stunt" in the realm of bicycle advocacy and if not, does it
diminish CM's perceived role in such?

	 

	 

	In a message dated 1/8/2008 8:57:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jontramos at yahoo.com writes:

		Regardless of how wide the corridor, how slow you were
going, or how f-ing magical YOU may have thought it was; I'm sure there
were irritated people who felt too intimidated to stand up to 20-30
rouge cyclists pedaling down their college corridor.  I know I would be.
It is very disrespectful to bike through an institution's private
interior and CM has no business being there.  Stick to the PUBLIC roads.


	 

	 

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The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above.
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From ThoM3 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 10:33:52 2008
From: ThoM3 at aol.com (ThoM3 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:33:52 EST
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
Message-ID: <c7d.1e8f4475.34b4f1e0@aol.com>

 
It is bicycle advocacy by default IMHO. If, as you say, there is  nothing to 
it, then I can assign it, just like you assigned it a tag of "party  on 
wheels"--BTW where is that definition? Cars are on wheels. I would venture to  say 
that in large, people get together to be with other bikers and show  solidarity 
as cyclists. That is advocacy.
 
The fact you assert an opinion over another is in fact defining and sets  you 
in a position over others, so are you the leader? 
 
I think we are steering into Zarathustra territory  now...
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/8/2008 10:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
leepeters at gis.net writes:

Without leaders or members and set goals, CM is not really an  advocacy group 
at all.  It is a party on wheels.  
 
Please do not think it is an advocacy group without (you yourself)  shaping 
it that way.  No one has really taken CM beyond anything but a  party - and all 
I have heard are people under the illusion that it is advocacy  and 
complained when it didn't live up to that standard.  I don't want to  spoil your 
involvement, but CM would need substantial initiative to  change.
 
The closest we have come to advocacy is the occasional flyer, sign  affixed 
to bike, or route planning for a specific purpose.
 
(for the record, I wish too that CM was  'nicer'.)



 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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From leepeters at gis.net  Tue Jan  8 10:54:11 2008
From: leepeters at gis.net (Lee Peters)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 10:54:11 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
References: <c7d.1e8f4475.34b4f1e0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <010801c8520e$b5eae8b0$6564a8c0@Unit2>

I have to insist that I am not a leader - because I don't do anything except ride when I can.  My opinion is formed from experience with the ride - and I am aware of how difficult it is to lead CM beyond a loose gathering of individuals moving through the streets.

Okay, so it may be perceived by some as advocacy - but be prepared for disappointment when it doesn't do what YOU want.  I am merely trying to get you to that point of understanding.  Over time, you will realize that without substantial leadership CM will only achieve so much.  Often it brings the plight of bicyclists down a notch as that motorist wipes the spittle from her windshield.

I am eager to see what the 'royal' you are going to assign to it.  If nothing else, you can try and prevent riders from entering buildings.  (which for me fits well with the party-on-wheels definition)  You may be able to succeed at that, but unfortunately announcing it on this list doesn't work.




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ThoM3 at aol.com 
  To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 10:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3


  It is bicycle advocacy by default IMHO. If, as you say, there is nothing to it, then I can assign it, just like you assigned it a tag of "party on wheels"--BTW where is that definition? Cars are on wheels. I would venture to say that in large, people get together to be with other bikers and show solidarity as cyclists. That is advocacy.

  The fact you assert an opinion over another is in fact defining and sets you in a position over others, so are you the leader? 

  I think we are steering into Zarathustra territory now...



  In a message dated 1/8/2008 10:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, leepeters at gis.net writes:
    Without leaders or members and set goals, CM is not really an advocacy group at all.  It is a party on wheels.  

    Please do not think it is an advocacy group without (you yourself) shaping it that way.  No one has really taken CM beyond anything but a party - and all I have heard are people under the illusion that it is advocacy and complained when it didn't live up to that standard.  I don't want to spoil your involvement, but CM would need substantial initiative to change.

    The closest we have come to advocacy is the occasional flyer, sign affixed to bike, or route planning for a specific purpose.

    (for the record, I wish too that CM was 'nicer'.)






------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Boston Critical Mass mailing list
  list at bostoncriticalmass.org
  http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
  To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
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From ThoM3 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 11:05:48 2008
From: ThoM3 at aol.com (ThoM3 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 11:05:48 EST
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
Message-ID: <c90.2087d8f7.34b4f95c@aol.com>

 
Well, I was talking out of the box, and I am not going to try to do or  
prevent anything, but I will say that it is bicycle advocacy by default. And it  is 
a party on people propelled wheels. And there is a degree of civil (important 
 word there) disobedience to it. But yeah, it's also WTF you want it to be, 
but  there is some baseline cohesion to it.
 
Put a fork (or air pump) in me
 
 
In a message dated 1/8/2008 10:51:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
leepeters at gis.net writes:

I have to insist that I am not a leader - because I don't do anything  except 
ride when I can.  My opinion is formed from experience with the  ride - and I 
am aware of how difficult it is to lead CM beyond a loose  gathering of 
individuals moving through the streets.
 
Okay, so it may be perceived by some as advocacy - but be prepared for  
disappointment when it doesn't do what YOU want.  I am merely trying to  get you to 
that point of understanding.  Over time, you will realize that  without 
substantial leadership CM will only achieve so much.  Often it  brings the plight 
of bicyclists down a notch as that motorist wipes the  spittle from her 
windshield.
 
I am eager to see what the 'royal' you are going to assign to it.   If 
nothing else, you can try and prevent riders from entering buildings.   (which for 
me fits well with the party-on-wheels definition)  You may be  able to succeed 
at that, but unfortunately announcing it on this list doesn't  work.



 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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From jchase at chaselimited.com  Tue Jan  8 11:07:57 2008
From: jchase at chaselimited.com (Jeremy Chase)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 11:07:57 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <010801c8520e$b5eae8b0$6564a8c0@Unit2>
References: <c7d.1e8f4475.34b4f1e0@aol.com>
	<010801c8520e$b5eae8b0$6564a8c0@Unit2>
Message-ID: <81ba52450801080807v322e7f34g9c670082aa7e46a1@mail.gmail.com>

Critical Mass is bicycle advocacy if you make it so. Unfortunately,
many riders are more interested in hating the cars than promoting
their bikes.

In my mind advocacy is any activity that promotes, educates, or funds
the cause. CM fits the description for education by showing people
that many people do ride their bikes. However, if we don't make an
effort to actually educate them we are just rolling by. Personally, I
always give a cogent answer to anyone who asks what we are doing. I
think that should be the bare minimum.

Any CM'er lashing out at the public is hurting us all. This should be
obvious, but group mentality takes over and CM turns to rubbish.

I like riding in CM, but right now, I don't think it is anything more
than people on bikes who annoy cars.

Jeremy


On Jan 8, 2008 10:54 AM, Lee Peters <leepeters at gis.net> wrote:
>
>
> I have to insist that I am not a leader - because I don't do anything except
> ride when I can.  My opinion is formed from experience with the ride - and I
> am aware of how difficult it is to lead CM beyond a loose gathering of
> individuals moving through the streets.
>
> Okay, so it may be perceived by some as advocacy - but be prepared for
> disappointment when it doesn't do what YOU want.  I am merely trying to get
> you to that point of understanding.  Over time, you will realize that
> without substantial leadership CM will only achieve so much.  Often it
> brings the plight of bicyclists down a notch as that motorist wipes the
> spittle from her windshield.
>
> I am eager to see what the 'royal' you are going to assign to it.  If
> nothing else, you can try and prevent riders from entering buildings.
> (which for me fits well with the party-on-wheels definition)  You may be
> able to succeed at that, but unfortunately announcing it on this list
> doesn't work.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ThoM3 at aol.com
> To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 10:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Bostoncriticalmass Digest, Vol 43, Issue 3
>
>
>
>
> It is bicycle advocacy by default IMHO. If, as you say, there is nothing to
> it, then I can assign it, just like you assigned it a tag of "party on
> wheels"--BTW where is that definition? Cars are on wheels. I would venture
> to say that in large, people get together to be with other bikers and show
> solidarity as cyclists. That is advocacy.
>
> The fact you assert an opinion over another is in fact defining and sets you
> in a position over others, so are you the leader?
>
> I think we are steering into Zarathustra territory now...
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/8/2008 10:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> leepeters at gis.net writes:
>
> Without leaders or members and set goals, CM is not really an advocacy group
> at all.  It is a party on wheels.
>
> Please do not think it is an advocacy group without (you yourself) shaping
> it that way.  No one has really taken CM beyond anything but a party - and
> all I have heard are people under the illusion that it is advocacy and
> complained when it didn't live up to that standard.  I don't want to spoil
> your involvement, but CM would need substantial initiative to change.
>
> The closest we have come to advocacy is the occasional flyer, sign affixed
> to bike, or route planning for a specific purpose.
>
> (for the record, I wish too that CM was 'nicer'.)
>
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>  Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
>
>  ________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>

From gh3451 at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  8 11:08:11 2008
From: gh3451 at yahoo.com (Paul Centro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 08:08:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [*BCM*] MIT ride
In-Reply-To: <ac58b8530801080326jc36e217p34dc9c4353384b61@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <695338.32838.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

MIT has been so totally cool over the years and I would hate to see this change.  Try that at Harvard and you'd probably get shot.
   
  In the 70's I used to walk in off the street and use the punch card room w/ their material for my own purposes.  In the 80's we used random rooms off of the infinite corridor to rehearse plays.  This last perk had to be curtailed somewhat recently as the priviledge started to be abused.

Antony Rudie <antony.rudie at gmail.com> wrote:
  I had grave misgivings as we climbed up the steps, but as the last person said, it really didn't seem to bother anyone.  And yeah, the person who didn't even look up from the laptop was funny.  I second the "let's not do it again" sentiment, (the sound-bite is unfortunate:  CM rides through MIT building) but I really don't think we alienated anyone while we were there.   -ARR _______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org

       
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From hyamada at MIT.EDU  Tue Jan  8 11:32:48 2008
From: hyamada at MIT.EDU (Hiroyuki G Yamada)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 11:32:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [*BCM*] MIT ride
In-Reply-To: <695338.32838.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <695338.32838.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64L.0801081122400.18827@vinegar-pot.mit.edu>

I would have to agree to Paul's sentiment -- Yea, it's a "Private 
institution," but it's also MIT. We're not exactly sipping tea with our 
pinky out, and our students are known for the whackiest hijinx known to... 
well, at least the east coast, if not most of the country. People 
routinely ride their unicycle/scooter/what have you down the corridors, 
and for the most part they are courteous about it and often get a laugh or 
smile, over an angry response. Furthermore, the argument that "Bike ride 
behaves badly knowing a journalist is in its midst" is going to lead to 
worsened images of CM is a little off-point, imho. The fact that there's 
some tool newspaper writer shouldn't limit or control our behavior in 
anyway -- for the worse or better. We shouldn't act more brashly or rude, 
but on the flipside, we also shouldn't try to pretty up the ride. We've 
all been there, when anger and mob mentality takes the better part of the 
ride, and it would be vain and silly to try and hide that aspect of the 
ride frm the media.

In THIS particular case, with the infinite virtually empty (again, no 
students) and the ride VERY small, I can't imagine there being any 
problem. On any other day, with MIT's full student body using the infinite 
and several hundred riders, that'd be an entirely different issue.

And for reference, MIT's hallways are open to the  public, and most of 
them, or at 
least the stretch of the infinite, are open 24/7. We don't lock the doors 
or gates or anything fancy like that.

As for bicycle advocacy, I stand with anyone who recognizes CM for what it 
is -- an enjoyable and safe ride through an urban environment. If you want 
to start tossing out mission statements and philosophies, you will 
probably lose a lot of the ride's enthusiasm. There have historically been 
no leaders and that alone rules out the typical definition of an  advocacy 
group.

Yes, we're riding bikes and "educating" the city, but by a similar token, 
I educate the city and its drivers every time I clip in, just on a smaller 
scale. Am I a bike advocate? Absolutely, I read the riot act to anyone who 
complains about gas prices. Do I claim to be running a 1-man advocacy 
group whenever I'm on wheels? No.

Oh, and the argument that "you're being a leader, so how come you won't 
lead" is fallacious. Just pointing out the lack of organization isn't 
instituting it for oneself.

--Yuki


On Tue, 8 Jan 2008, Paul Centro wrote:

> MIT has been so totally cool over the years and I would hate to see this change.  Try that at Harvard and you'd probably get shot.
>
>  In the 70's I used to walk in off the street and use the punch card room w/ their material for my own purposes.  In the 80's we used random rooms off of the infinite corridor to rehearse plays.  This last perk had to be curtailed somewhat recently as the priviledge started to be abused.
>
> Antony Rudie <antony.rudie at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I had grave misgivings as we climbed up the steps, but as the last person said, it really didn't seem to bother anyone.  And yeah, the person who didn't even look up from the laptop was funny.  I second the "let's not do it again" sentiment, (the sound-bite is unfortunate:  CM rides through MIT building) but I really don't think we alienated anyone while we were there.   -ARR _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

From androidqueen at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 11:40:34 2008
From: androidqueen at gmail.com (Robotica)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 11:40:34 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] MIT ride
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64L.0801081122400.18827@vinegar-pot.mit.edu>
References: <695338.32838.qm@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64L.0801081122400.18827@vinegar-pot.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <9bde964c0801080840y412f6fbep53f238df8091ac76@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 8, 2008 11:32 AM, Hiroyuki G Yamada <hyamada at mit.edu> wrote:
> I would have to agree to Paul's sentiment -- Yea, it's a "Private
> institution," but it's also MIT. We're not exactly sipping tea with our
> pinky out, and our students are known for the whackiest hijinx known to...
> well, at least the east coast, if not most of the country. People
> routinely ride their unicycle/scooter/what have you down the corridors,
> and for the most part they are courteous about it and often get a laugh or
> smile, over an angry response.

Not to put words into Paul's mouth, but it sounds like you're
explicitly disagreeing.

As evidenced by the ousting of the local theater groups, MIT has
started changing its policies on this sort of behavior.  Not the
students, but the administration.  Behavior like this probably does
not help the situation.

-m

-- 
ninjaneer.  geomancer.  licensed scientician.

From jym at econet.org  Tue Jan  8 14:19:21 2008
From: jym at econet.org (Jym Dyer)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:19:21 -0800
Subject: [*BCM*] MIT Ride
In-Reply-To: Message from Jon Ramos of "Tue, 08 Jan 2008 05:56:56 PST."
References: <66808.14093.qm@web50002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Jym.08Jan2008.4783cc9b@econet.org>

> 20-30 rouge cyclists pedaling down their college corridor.

=v= Rouge cyclists?  I was not aware that it was a drag-themed
ride, how very San Francisco!  Or perhaps you meant something
a bit more crimson, in which case it was probably chalked up
to a Harvard prank.
    TTFN,
    <_Jym_>


From jontramos at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  8 14:04:24 2008
From: jontramos at yahoo.com (Jon Ramos)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 11:04:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [*BCM*] MIT Ride
Message-ID: <149640.96161.qm@web50007.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Rouge
noun, verb

2.a playfully mischievous person; scamp

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rogue

I think this definition is accurate.

- Jon


----- Original Message ----
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 2:19:21 PM
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] MIT Ride

> 20-30 rouge cyclists pedaling down their college corridor.

=v= Rouge cyclists?  I was not aware that it was a drag-themed
ride, how very San Francisco!  Or perhaps you meant something
a bit more crimson, in which case it was probably chalked up
to a Harvard prank.
    TTFN,
    <_Jym_>

_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From ThoM3 at aol.com  Tue Jan  8 15:00:06 2008
From: ThoM3 at aol.com (ThoM3 at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:00:06 EST
Subject: [*BCM*] MIT ride
Message-ID: <c70.219701bd.34b53046@aol.com>

 
solidarity without leaders or with leaders is a form of advocacy, you don't  
need a leader or be a group or and advocacy group. Are we on the roads to make 
a  statement or have fun? I say both.
 
 
In a message dated 1/8/2008 11:33:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
hyamada at MIT.EDU writes:

I would  have to agree to Paul's sentiment -- Yea, it's a "Private 
institution,"  but it's also MIT. We're not exactly sipping tea with our 
pinky out, and  our students are known for the whackiest hijinx known to... 
well, at least  the east coast, if not most of the country. People 
routinely ride their  unicycle/scooter/what have you down the corridors, 
and for the most part  they are courteous about it and often get a laugh or 
smile, over an angry  response. Furthermore, the argument that "Bike ride 
behaves badly knowing  a journalist is in its midst" is going to lead to 
worsened images of CM is  a little off-point, imho. The fact that there's 
some tool newspaper writer  shouldn't limit or control our behavior in 
anyway -- for the worse or  better. We shouldn't act more brashly or rude, 
but on the flipside, we  also shouldn't try to pretty up the ride. We've 
all been there, when anger  and mob mentality takes the better part of the 
ride, and it would be vain  and silly to try and hide that aspect of the 
ride frm the media.

In  THIS particular case, with the infinite virtually empty (again, no  
students) and the ride VERY small, I can't imagine there being any  
problem. On any other day, with MIT's full student body using the infinite  
and several hundred riders, that'd be an entirely different  issue.

And for reference, MIT's hallways are open to the  public,  and most of 
them, or at 
least the stretch of the infinite, are open  24/7. We don't lock the doors 
or gates or anything fancy like  that.

As for bicycle advocacy, I stand with anyone who recognizes CM  for what it 
is -- an enjoyable and safe ride through an urban environment.  If you want 
to start tossing out mission statements and philosophies, you  will 
probably lose a lot of the ride's enthusiasm. There have historically  been 
no leaders and that alone rules out the typical definition of  an  advocacy 
group.

Yes, we're riding bikes and "educating"  the city, but by a similar token, 
I educate the city and its drivers every  time I clip in, just on a smaller 
scale. Am I a bike advocate? Absolutely,  I read the riot act to anyone who 
complains about gas prices. Do I claim  to be running a 1-man advocacy 
group whenever I'm on wheels?  No.

Oh, and the argument that "you're being a leader, so how come you  won't 
lead" is fallacious. Just pointing out the lack of organization  isn't 
instituting it for oneself.

--Yuki


 



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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From antony.rudie at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 17:27:29 2008
From: antony.rudie at gmail.com (Antony Rudie)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:27:29 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] MIT again
Message-ID: <ac58b8530801091427o760fbd0dy818f5da738b9d7f4@mail.gmail.com>

> From: Paul Centro <gh3451 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] MIT ride
To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Message-ID: <695338.32838.qm at web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIT has been so totally cool over the years and I would hate to see this
change.

agreed.  I'm glad I was there, but Let's not do it again, folks.
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From yawu at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  9 18:17:40 2008
From: yawu at hotmail.com (Yawu Miller)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:17:40 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Stolen bike
Message-ID: <BAY122-W38CD3B6FAE902376D6B822D5490@phx.gbl>


I saw a single speed bike on the rack by my building in downtown Boston Sunday with no lock. Anybody know anyone who's missing one. Email me details and I'll tell you where it's at and how you can get it.

(617) 821-8552

_________________________________________________________________
Watch ?Cause Effect,? a show about real people making a real difference.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause
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From jym at econet.org  Sun Jan 13 22:47:16 2008
From: jym at econet.org (Jym Dyer)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:47:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails
Message-ID: <Jym.13Jan2008.478adb43@econet.org>

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/13/a_cycle_of_disrespect_prevails/

LETTER: A cycle of disrespect prevails
Boston Globe | 13-Jan-2008

I was dismayed to find that your article on monthly Critical
Mass bicycle rides ("Achieving Critical Mass," City Weekly,
Jan. 6) made no mention of their impact on pedestrians.  more
stories like this

I agree that auto drivers in Boston are aggressive and dangerous
to bicyclists. I gave up cycling in the city more than 30 years
ago for that reason. However, bicyclists treat pedestrians with
even more contempt and aggressiveness. Refusing to stop at red
lights does not affect only auto drivers. What about pedestrians
using the crosswalks at those intersections? Are they not
entitled to access to the road as well?

Worse, riding on sidewalks is endemic, although illegal. Even
the Boston University bicycle police ride on the sidewalks. At
my local bus stop, it is impossible for bus drivers to stop at
the curb because two memorial bicycles for Kelly Wallace are
blocking access (one chained to the bus stop pole itself, and
currently overturned and even more in the way than usual). Too
many Boston bicyclists show disrespect for all other forms of
transportation, not just toward careless drivers.

	Charity Stafford
	Allston

From jeremychase at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 23:19:01 2008
From: jeremychase at gmail.com (Jeremy Chase)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:19:01 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails
In-Reply-To: <Jym.13Jan2008.478adb43@econet.org>
References: <Jym.13Jan2008.478adb43@econet.org>
Message-ID: <81ba52450801132019m692fc6ecvdbc2c6da246f1e17@mail.gmail.com>

This response is a bit venomous, but that doesn't detract from the
accuracy of their opinion.

Jeremy

On Jan 13, 2008 10:47 PM, Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org> wrote:
> http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/13/a_cycle_of_disrespect_prevails/
>
> LETTER: A cycle of disrespect prevails
> Boston Globe | 13-Jan-2008
>
> I was dismayed to find that your article on monthly Critical
> Mass bicycle rides ("Achieving Critical Mass," City Weekly,
> Jan. 6) made no mention of their impact on pedestrians.  more
> stories like this
>
> I agree that auto drivers in Boston are aggressive and dangerous
> to bicyclists. I gave up cycling in the city more than 30 years
> ago for that reason. However, bicyclists treat pedestrians with
> even more contempt and aggressiveness. Refusing to stop at red
> lights does not affect only auto drivers. What about pedestrians
> using the crosswalks at those intersections? Are they not
> entitled to access to the road as well?
>
> Worse, riding on sidewalks is endemic, although illegal. Even
> the Boston University bicycle police ride on the sidewalks. At
> my local bus stop, it is impossible for bus drivers to stop at
> the curb because two memorial bicycles for Kelly Wallace are
> blocking access (one chained to the bus stop pole itself, and
> currently overturned and even more in the way than usual). Too
> many Boston bicyclists show disrespect for all other forms of
> transportation, not just toward careless drivers.
>
>         Charity Stafford
>         Allston
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>

From jym at econet.org  Mon Jan 14 12:40:09 2008
From: jym at econet.org (Jym Dyer)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:40:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails
References: <Jym.13Jan2008.478adb43@econet.org>
	<81ba52450801132019m692fc6ecvdbc2c6da246f1e17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Jym.14Jan2008.478b9e78@econet.org>

> This response is a bit venomous, but that doesn't detract from
> the accuracy of their opinion.

=v= Accuracy?  Last I looked, Critical Mass was about riding in
the streets, not on sidewalks.  I don't think bicyclists should
menace pedestrians either (I doubt any of us do), but it's got
nothing to do with Mister Punk Rock Dude's amateur hour article
about Critical Mass.

=v= Maybe people should just write in with all their grievances
about anything bicycle-related and blame Critical Mass for it.
    <_Jym_>

From thom3 at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 12:44:31 2008
From: thom3 at aol.com (thom3 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:44:31 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails
In-Reply-To: <Jym.14Jan2008.478b9e78@econet.org>
References: <Jym.13Jan2008.478adb43@econet.org>	<81ba52450801132019m692fc6ecvdbc2c6da246f1e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<Jym.14Jan2008.478b9e78@econet.org>
Message-ID: <8CA24EC406D73A6-624-AF0@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>

I totally agree that article was a rant loosely connected to anything in the "Punk Rock Dude's amateur article."

Do we know if the merry lad was a punker? 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:40 pm
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails



> This response is a bit venomous, but that doesn't detract from
> the accuracy of their opinion.

=v= Accuracy?  Last I looked, Critical Mass was about riding in
the streets, not on sidewalks.  I don't think bicyclists should
menace pedestrians either (I doubt any of us do), but it's got
nothing to do with Mister Punk Rock Dude's amateur hour article
about Critical Mass.

=v= Maybe people should just write in with all their grievances
about anything bicycle-related and blame Critical Mass for it.
    <_Jym_>
_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
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From mtflatley at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 12:46:58 2008
From: mtflatley at gmail.com (mary flatley)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:46:58 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails
In-Reply-To: <8CA24EC406D73A6-624-AF0@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>
References: <Jym.13Jan2008.478adb43@econet.org>
	<81ba52450801132019m692fc6ecvdbc2c6da246f1e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<Jym.14Jan2008.478b9e78@econet.org>
	<8CA24EC406D73A6-624-AF0@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <172cea710801140946y65411c07x7afcbc681dbd2c0e@mail.gmail.com>

to quote freaks and geeks:
'You know what punkers don't do? Call themselves punkers.'

sorry, i had to.

-mary

On Jan 14, 2008 12:44 PM, <thom3 at aol.com> wrote:

> I totally agree that article was a rant loosely connected to anything in
> the "Punk Rock Dude's amateur article."
>
> Do we know if the merry lad was a punker?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
> To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
> Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:40 pm
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails
>
> > This response is a bit venomous, but that doesn't detract from
> > the accuracy of their opinion.
>
> =v= Accuracy?  Last I looked, Critical Mass was about riding in
> the streets, not on sidewalks.  I don't think bicyclists should
> menace pedestrians either (I doubt any of us do), but it's got
> nothing to do with Mister Punk Rock Dude's amateur hour article
> about Critical Mass.
>
> =v= Maybe people should just write in with all their grievances
> about anything bicycle-related and blame Critical Mass for it.
>     <_Jym_>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing listlist at bostoncriticalmass.orghttp://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
>  ------------------------------
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003>
> !
>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
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From thom3 at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 12:55:49 2008
From: thom3 at aol.com (thom3 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:55:49 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails
In-Reply-To: <172cea710801140946y65411c07x7afcbc681dbd2c0e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Jym.13Jan2008.478adb43@econet.org>	<81ba52450801132019m692fc6ecvdbc2c6da246f1e17@mail.gmail.com>	<Jym.14Jan2008.478b9e78@econet.org>	<8CA24EC406D73A6-624-AF0@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>
	<172cea710801140946y65411c07x7afcbc681dbd2c0e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CA24EDD49B680E-624-C15@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>

Dude is self described? Say it ain't sno...




-----Original Message-----
From: mary flatley <mtflatley at gmail.com>
To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:46 pm
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails


to quote freaks and geeks:
'You know what punkers don't do? Call themselves punkers.'

sorry, i had to.

-mary


On Jan 14, 2008 12:44 PM, < thom3 at aol.com> wrote:

I totally agree that article was a rant loosely connected to anything in the "Punk Rock Dude's amateur article." 

Do we know if the merry lad was a punker? 





-----Original Message-----
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:40 pm
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails



> This response is a bit venomous, but that doesn't detract from
> the accuracy of their opinion.

=v= Accuracy?  Last I looked, Critical Mass was about riding in
the streets, not on sidewalks.  I don't think bicyclists should
menace pedestrians either (I doubt any of us do), but it's got
nothing to do with Mister Punk Rock Dude's amateur hour article
about Critical Mass.

=v= Maybe people should just write in with all their grievances
about anything bicycle-related and blame Critical Mass for it.
    <_Jym_>
_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org




More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!


_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org






_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


________________________________________________________________________
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From gh3451 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 14 12:57:07 2008
From: gh3451 at yahoo.com (Paul Centro)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:57:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails
In-Reply-To: <172cea710801140946y65411c07x7afcbc681dbd2c0e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <583122.42990.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It may be silly for an adult to do it but it is not illegal to ride your bicycle on the sidewalk.  Does this woman want 6 year olds out in the street?  
   
  http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/85-11b.htm
   
  

mary flatley <mtflatley at gmail.com> wrote:
  to quote freaks and geeks:
'You know what punkers don't do? Call themselves punkers.'

sorry, i had to.

-mary

  On Jan 14, 2008 12:44 PM, < thom3 at aol.com> wrote:
  I totally agree that article was a rant loosely connected to anything in the "Punk Rock Dude's amateur article." 

Do we know if the merry lad was a punker?     
  

-----Original Message-----
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:40 pm
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails

  
> This response is a bit venomous, but that doesn't detract from  > the accuracy of their opinion.    =v= Accuracy?  Last I looked, Critical Mass was about riding in  the streets, not on sidewalks.  I don't think bicyclists should  menace pedestrians either (I doubt any of us do), but it's got  nothing to do with Mister Punk Rock Dude's amateur hour article  about Critical Mass.    =v= Maybe people should just write in with all their grievances  about anything bicycle-related and blame Critical Mass for it.      <_Jym_>  _______________________________________________  Boston Critical Mass mailing list  list at bostoncriticalmass.org  http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list  To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org  



    
---------------------------------
  More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!


_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


_______________________________________________
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list at bostoncriticalmass.org
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From thom3 at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 13:01:09 2008
From: thom3 at aol.com (thom3 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:01:09 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails
In-Reply-To: <583122.42990.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CA24EE93BD6CD6-624-CA9@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>

It is illegal in designated areas


?


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Centro <gh3451 at yahoo.com>
To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:57 pm
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails



It may be silly for an adult to do it?but?it?is not illegal to ride your bicycle on the sidewalk.? Does this woman want 6 year olds out in the street?? 

?

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/85-11b.htm

?



mary flatley <mtflatley at gmail.com> wrote:

to quote freaks and geeks:
'You know what punkers don't do? Call themselves punkers.'

sorry, i had to.

-mary


On Jan 14, 2008 12:44 PM, < thom3 at aol.com> wrote:

I totally agree that article was a rant loosely connected to anything in the "Punk Rock Dude's amateur article." 

Do we know if the merry lad was a punker? 





-----Original Message-----
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:40 pm
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails



> This response is a bit venomous, but that doesn't detract from  > the accuracy of their opinion.    =v= Accuracy?  Last I looked, Critical Mass was about riding in  the streets, not on sidewalks.  I don't think bicyclists should  menace pedestrians either (I doubt any of us do), but it's got  nothing to do with Mister
 Punk Rock Dude's amateur hour article  about Critical Mass.    =v= Maybe people should just write in with all their grievances  about anything bicycle-related and blame Critical Mass for it.      <_Jym_>  _______________________________________________  Boston Critical Mass mailing list  list at bostoncriticalmass.org  http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list  To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org  




More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!


_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org



_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org



Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. 


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


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From info at adamshoop.org  Mon Jan 14 13:27:06 2008
From: info at adamshoop.org (Adam Shoop)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:27:06 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails
In-Reply-To: <8CA24EE93BD6CD6-624-CA9@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>
References: <583122.42990.qm@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<8CA24EE93BD6CD6-624-CA9@FWM-M08.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <006801c856db$129cc670$6402a8c0@DG9BNJ41>

On sidewalk riding: Which is most of downtown Boston, I think.  I didn't see
anything with a quick check on the city's website, but Cambridge has the
following information:

 

2. Am I allowed to bicycle on the sidewalk?

 

State law permits bicyclists to travel on sidewalks in the interest of
safety except as directed by local ordinance. In general, it is more
appropriate and prudent to bicycle in the street, and Cambridge is making
every effort to making the city streets safe and comfortable for bicycling.
However, it is recognized that there are times when sidewalk riding will be
used, for example, with young children. Cambridge traffic regulations
require that bicyclists on sidewalks travel at a walking speed and yield to
pedestrians.

 

Sidewalk riding is not permitted in the business districts of Harvard
Square, Central Square, Porter Square, Inman Square, Huron Ave., and
sections of Mass. Ave. north of Harvard Square.

 

http://www.ci.cambridge.ma.us/CDD/et/bike/bike_faq.html

 

  _____  

From: bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org
[mailto:bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org] On Behalf Of
thom3 at aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 1:01 PM
To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails

 

It is illegal in designated areas

 



-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Centro <gh3451 at yahoo.com>
To: Boston Critical Mass <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:57 pm
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] BOSTON-GLOBE\L: A cycle of disrespect prevails

It may be silly for an adult to do it but it is not illegal to ride your
bicycle on the sidewalk.  Does this woman want 6 year olds out in the
street?  

 

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/85-11b.htm

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From leepeters at gis.net  Tue Jan 15 10:03:45 2008
From: leepeters at gis.net (Lee Peters)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:03:45 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Phone Bill
References: <Jym.13Jan2008.478adb43@econet.org>
Message-ID: <000e01c85787$d3204cd0$6564a8c0@Unit2>

I just called my state rep to support limits on mobile phone use....his 
office said it is looking good.


Jeffrey Sanchez seems to be with us. 


From iqdance at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 03:21:52 2008
From: iqdance at gmail.com (? ?)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:21:52 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [*BCM*] Link to call me for free
Message-ID: <1287970757.9391200730912020.JavaMail.tomcat@que1.sv.jaxtr.com>



I am using jaxtr, and if you also sign up, we can talk for free on the phone at any time.

-?

P.S. Here is the link to sign up: http://www.jaxtr.com/user/ticket?n=T1ve4vnlxo7osz&type=joininvite

---
Delivered by jaxtr, Inc., 855 Oak Grove Avenue, Suite 100, Menlo Park, California 94025. To stop receiving messages from this sender go to http://www.jaxtr.com/user/reportabuse.jsp?it=T1ve4vnlxo7osz
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From jasmine at bikesnotbombs.org  Wed Jan 23 10:21:15 2008
From: jasmine at bikesnotbombs.org (jasmine laietmark)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:21:15 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Big Chomsky & BNB Event 1/31
Message-ID: <93fc2c350801230721y77431d86h3794cedd8998a7c0@mail.gmail.com>

*Noam Chomsky *Speaks*:
*
*"IMPACTS OF WAR - political, social, & economic consequences"

*followed by* Carl Kurz *with a* slideshow-style presentation on the history
of Bikes Not Bombs
*

Thursday, January 31, 2008
Doors open at 6:00 pm

on the Main Stage, Media Arts Bldg
at Roxbury Community College

see *http://www.bikesnotbombs.org/chomsky** for full info and to purchase
tickets in advance.   * <http://www.bikesnotbombs.org/>

Noam Chomsky has been a Bikes Not Bombs donor and member for more than 12
years, and he will be speaking as a benefit for Bikes Not Bombs. As the war
stretches on in Iraq and threatens to spread into unending war in more
countries, this is an important time to hear from Professor Chomsky, deepen
our understanding of the workings of power, and consider how we can best
work towards lasting peace and social justice.

Musical introduction by a Brass Quintet, doing American shape note and
Bulgarian village harmonies.  Noam Chomsky will speak followed by a question
and answer period. Next will be a slideshow by Carl Kurz, founder of Bikes
Not Bombs, giving an illustrated history of BNB's beginnings in war-torn
Nicaragua, and an updated overview of BNB's international and youth work
today.

We suggest you get your tickets in advance, and the easiest way to do this
is online at *http://www.bikesnotbombs.org/chomsky07*<http://www.bikesnotbombs.org/chomsky07>.
Tickets are on sliding scale and you can choose how much to donate, but we
do encourage you to be generous!

NOTE: This event was rescheduled because of a blizzard in December.  If you
had tickets for that event, they are now relevant for the new date, or you
can ask for a refund, or just make your earlier purchase a donation (but if
you won't be using your previous ticket, let us know so we can give your
seat to someone else!)

*DIRECTIONS*
Roxbury Community College (RCC) is at 1234 Columbus Ave.  The Main Stage
takes up the entire first floor of the Media Arts Building, which is at the
corner of Columbus Ave and Malcolm X Blvd.  The Media Arts Center is
directly across Columbus Ave. from the Roxbury Crossing T stop on the Orange
Line.  It is across Malcolm X Blvd from the Reggie Lewis Track and Field
Center.  The Southwest Corridor Bike Path runs alongside Columbus Ave and
directly in front of the T station - from there you'll cross Columbus and
find campus bike racks.  For car parking, going southwest (with RCC on your
left and the T station on your right, Tremont and Malcolm X Blvd behind you)
once you pass the final large brick building of RCC, turn left onto Cedar
Street, and and immediate right into a large parking lot.
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From ajp at aripollak.com  Thu Jan 24 12:13:08 2008
From: ajp at aripollak.com (Ari Pollak)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:13:08 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist
Message-ID: <1201194788.18406.4.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22818852/


From ccurran at phx.com  Thu Jan 24 12:23:27 2008
From: ccurran at phx.com (Curran, Caitlin)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:23:27 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist
In-Reply-To: <1201194788.18406.4.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
Message-ID: <F6D84652CA9E364F86D0C34036F652040469EFCE@email01.phx.local>

"During the conversation, the man told Arrington that an acquaintance
believed she should get a medal and a parade because she had "taken out"
a "tree hugger, a bicyclist, a Frenchman and a gay guy all in one shot."

Ugh, that makes me feel sick to my stomach.


-----Original Message-----
From: bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org
[mailto:bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org] On Behalf Of
Ari Pollak
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 12:13 PM
To: list at bostoncriticalmass.org
Subject: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22818852/

_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
This electronic message may contain privileged information.  The information is intended for use of the addressee only.  If you are not the addressee, please be advised that any copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. 


From jym at econet.org  Thu Jan 24 12:29:30 2008
From: jym at econet.org (Jym Dyer)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:29:30 -0800
Subject: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist
In-Reply-To: Message from Ari Pollak of "Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:13:08 EST."
References: <1201194788.18406.4.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
Message-ID: <Jym.24Jan2008.4798cadc@econet.org>


| ... because she had "taken out" a "tree hugger, a bicyclist,
| a Frenchman and a gay guy all in one shot."

=v= Excerpts from the recorded conversation are in this video:

http://www.kgun9.com/NewsArticle/tabid/1112/xmid/18220/Default.aspx

    <_Jym_>

From estratton.apple at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 18:33:06 2008
From: estratton.apple at gmail.com (Eric A. Stratton)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:33:06 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist
In-Reply-To: <Jym.24Jan2008.4798cadc@econet.org>
References: <1201194788.18406.4.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
	<Jym.24Jan2008.4798cadc@econet.org>
Message-ID: <82C487B9-A1FA-414D-89C0-299314D91979@gmail.com>

10.5 years is so little for the cost of a human life.  This is  
terrible to hear about, and I think she really earned this sentence.   
She was driving on a suspended license according to the article, for a  
prior DUI.  How dumb do people have to be.

-E

On Jan 24, 2008, at 12:29 PM, Jym Dyer wrote:

>
> | ... because she had "taken out" a "tree hugger, a bicyclist,
> | a Frenchman and a gay guy all in one shot."
>
> =v= Excerpts from the recorded conversation are in this video:
>
> http://www.kgun9.com/NewsArticle/tabid/1112/xmid/18220/Default.aspx
>
>    <_Jym_>
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


From jim_bcm at xuth.net  Thu Jan 24 19:46:40 2008
From: jim_bcm at xuth.net (Jim Leonard)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:46:40 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist
In-Reply-To: <82C487B9-A1FA-414D-89C0-299314D91979@gmail.com>
References: <1201194788.18406.4.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
	<Jym.24Jan2008.4798cadc@econet.org>
	<82C487B9-A1FA-414D-89C0-299314D91979@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080125004640.GA22881@statlerandwaldorf.netmar.com>

On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 06:33:06PM -0500, Eric A. Stratton wrote:
> 10.5 years is so little for the cost of a human life.  This is  

And yet 10.5 years might as well be a yet another lifetime.  This isn't
rehabilitation, this is vengence.  Jail is a deterrent, but at some point 
you have diminishing returns.  Putting her in jail doesn't bring back a 
life and probably hurts many others.  It is arguably making the world 
safer but isn't there a better way?

I don't know that I have the right answer, but I can't see putting 
someone in prison for 10 years doing anybody any good.

--jim


> terrible to hear about, and I think she really earned this sentence.   
> She was driving on a suspended license according to the article, for a  
> prior DUI.  How dumb do people have to be.
> 
> -E
> 
> On Jan 24, 2008, at 12:29 PM, Jym Dyer wrote:
> 
> >
> > | ... because she had "taken out" a "tree hugger, a bicyclist,
> > | a Frenchman and a gay guy all in one shot."
> >
> > =v= Excerpts from the recorded conversation are in this video:
> >
> > http://www.kgun9.com/NewsArticle/tabid/1112/xmid/18220/Default.aspx
> >
> >    <_Jym_>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> > list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> > To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org

From c1 at caseyc.net  Thu Jan 24 22:04:56 2008
From: c1 at caseyc.net (Casey Callendrello)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:04:56 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Thoughts about Denver?
Message-ID: <E5FF17EF-9D89-4997-8A51-B05C7BC98B61@caseyc.net>

Hi, BCM'ers.  I seek your advice...
I'll be living in Denver, CO for three weeks starting this February  
for work.  The hotel I'm at is only a few miles from the office, so  
I'd rather bike to work.  I've got some questions for the list:

* Is Denver a bikeable place?  I'll be in the southern suburbs, if  
that matters.  I also used to bike a lot in NYC so I can handle  
pretty much any sort of road conditions.  This is my first time in  
Denver so I'd like to sight-see, go to museums, etc.  Is there a  
reasonable public transportation network, or will I need a car on  
weekends?

* I need a bike for three weeks.  Are there any reasonably-priced  
choices for bike rental?  A co-worker in the same situation bought a  
bike, used it for a month, then sold it on Craigslist.  Anybody have  
friends with a loaner bike I could rent?


Thanks in advance,
--Casey C.


From ericmearns at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 09:34:16 2008
From: ericmearns at gmail.com (Eric Mearns)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:34:16 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist
In-Reply-To: <20080125004640.GA22881@statlerandwaldorf.netmar.com>
References: <1201194788.18406.4.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
	<Jym.24Jan2008.4798cadc@econet.org>
	<82C487B9-A1FA-414D-89C0-299314D91979@gmail.com>
	<20080125004640.GA22881@statlerandwaldorf.netmar.com>
Message-ID: <fe966c460801250634l18cb4b87ha320b51678129750@mail.gmail.com>

It's not vengeance or rehabilitation, it's just logical that if
someone is unable to make the decisions on their own that keep them
from killing those around them, that they be removed from the
equation.  I have zero faith in law enforcement or our justice system,
but if the facts in this article are true, I can't think of a better
candidate for a prison sentence than this clown.
Again, I have to trust the media on this, but according to this article:
She got caught driving drunk once, and her license was taken away.
Not convinced at this point that driving drunk was a bad idea, she
decided to do it again without the benefit of a driver's license this
time.
She killed someone.
So her prison sentence is "arguably" making the world safer? How about
"absolutely"?  What would be a "better way", hiding her car keys in
the cookie jar and making her promise to switch to diet coke after two
beers?  Maybe she could pinky swear and sign a pledge that she would
never ever ever ever do it again.
Some people just aren't capable of making decisions on their own, and
when that inability results in innocent people losing their lives,
someone has to step in and take over the decision making for them.
The people who benefit from the prison term are all of the people who
might have been killed or maimed (Arrington included) had she been
allowed to continue along on her path of poor decision making.  I'd
say the prison term is doing immeasurable good for both her and anyone
unfortunate enough to share a road with her.
That said, I also advocate 10 year prison terms for such crimes as
failing to use a directional and driving while being a cabbie.


On Jan 24, 2008 7:46 PM, Jim Leonard <jim_bcm at xuth.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 06:33:06PM -0500, Eric A. Stratton wrote:
> > 10.5 years is so little for the cost of a human life.  This is
>
> And yet 10.5 years might as well be a yet another lifetime.  This isn't
> rehabilitation, this is vengence.  Jail is a deterrent, but at some point
> you have diminishing returns.  Putting her in jail doesn't bring back a
> life and probably hurts many others.  It is arguably making the world
> safer but isn't there a better way?
>
> I don't know that I have the right answer, but I can't see putting
> someone in prison for 10 years doing anybody any good.
>
> --jim
>
>
>
> > terrible to hear about, and I think she really earned this sentence.
> > She was driving on a suspended license according to the article, for a
> > prior DUI.  How dumb do people have to be.
> >
> > -E
> >
> > On Jan 24, 2008, at 12:29 PM, Jym Dyer wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > | ... because she had "taken out" a "tree hugger, a bicyclist,
> > > | a Frenchman and a gay guy all in one shot."
> > >
> > > =v= Excerpts from the recorded conversation are in this video:
> > >
> > > http://www.kgun9.com/NewsArticle/tabid/1112/xmid/18220/Default.aspx
> > >
> > >    <_Jym_>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> > > list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > > http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> > > To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> > list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> > http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> > To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>

From jasmine at bikesnotbombs.org  Fri Jan 25 11:33:35 2008
From: jasmine at bikesnotbombs.org (jasmine laietmark)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:33:35 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist
In-Reply-To: <fe966c460801250634l18cb4b87ha320b51678129750@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1201194788.18406.4.camel@apollak.lab.compete.com>
	<Jym.24Jan2008.4798cadc@econet.org>
	<82C487B9-A1FA-414D-89C0-299314D91979@gmail.com>
	<20080125004640.GA22881@statlerandwaldorf.netmar.com>
	<fe966c460801250634l18cb4b87ha320b51678129750@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93fc2c350801250833j66b82d02nfc16949d0541f7ab@mail.gmail.com>

eric wrote:
"That said, I also advocate 10 year prison terms for such crimes as
failing to use a directional and driving while being a cabbie."

i would like to briefly point out the irony of making light, for even but a
moment, ten years in prison. The prison system is not a light matter either.
The quoted eric might concur given another thing he just wrote: "I have zero
faith in law enforcement or our justice system." a serious statement!

i don't mean to wag my finger, but... how do i say it briefly... prisons are
not ok.
again this topic pops up on this list. not the most appropriate space for a
thorough discussion- but the irony was too much not to mention. and this
<critical mass> is a group with strong (mostly smart) energy- and often,
wagging fingers.
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From jym at econet.org  Fri Jan 25 16:15:47 2008
From: jym at econet.org (Jym Dyer)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:15:47 -0800
Subject: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist
In-Reply-To: Message from Eric Mearns of "Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:34:16 EST."
References: <fe966c460801250634l18cb4b87ha320b51678129750@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Jym.25Jan2008.479a5165@econet.org>

> She got caught driving drunk once, and her license was
> taken away. Not convinced at this point that driving drunk
> was a bad idea, she decided to do it again without the
> benefit of a driver's license this time.
>
> She killed someone.

=v= The situation is even worse, because there are plenty of
judges around who are lenient on dangerous drivers (not just
the drunks) because the offender "needs" to drive.  The drunk
and bad drivers I'm acquainted with only had their licenses
taken away after multiple offenses.

=v= And they all went on to drive anyway.  Personally I think
they need to have their cars taken away as well.
    <_Jym_>


From jontramos at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 25 16:54:44 2008
From: jontramos at yahoo.com (Jon Ramos)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:54:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist
Message-ID: <351244.83712.qm@web50008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I second that.  Driving is a privilidge, not a right, but many rulings are leiniant because (like Jym said) the offender "needs" to drive.

My father was a repeat DWI offender in NH.  The state only took his license away after being caught 3 times! (he was only *CAUGHT* 3 times) And when they finally did take away his license, it was only for 6 months, and he drove that whole time without a license anyway.  It needs to be made clear to drivers that it is NOT an american right to drive.  I think we should impound offender's cars, and provide them with a nice steel commuter bicycle.

I love my dad.  Eventually he was sucessfully rehabilitated from his alcoholism, but it took 3 times being caught, thousands of dollars of fines, 3 heart attacks (he also had eating / smoking problems), and my mom threatening a divorce to get him to wake up.  

He is also losing his eyesight, and he has extremely slow reflexes... yet he still drives, but that is a different discussion.

- Jon


----- Original Message ----
From: Jym Dyer <jym at econet.org>
To: Boston CM <list at bostoncriticalmass.org>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 4:15:47 PM
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Drunk driver gets 10 1/2 years for killing cyclist

> She got caught driving drunk once, and her license was
> taken away. Not convinced at this point that driving drunk
> was a bad idea, she decided to do it again without the
> benefit of a driver's license this time.
>
> She killed someone.

=v= The situation is even worse, because there are plenty of
judges around who are lenient on dangerous drivers (not just
the drunks) because the offender "needs" to drive.  The drunk
and bad drivers I'm acquainted with only had their licenses
taken away after multiple offenses.

=v= And they all went on to drive anyway.  Personally I think
they need to have their cars taken away as well.
    <_Jym_>

_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
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From ericmearns at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 10:44:57 2008
From: ericmearns at gmail.com (Eric Mearns)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:44:57 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Motorist kills cyclist, sues for car damages
Message-ID: <fe966c460801300744h6263dd91o6f33a8d4d5b95b3e@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/01/30/spain.luxury.car/index.html

From jameson.bull at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 11:48:37 2008
From: jameson.bull at gmail.com (Jameson Bull)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:48:37 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Motorist kills cyclist, sues for car damages
In-Reply-To: <fe966c460801300744h6263dd91o6f33a8d4d5b95b3e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe966c460801300744h6263dd91o6f33a8d4d5b95b3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d82c6a6f0801300848h688acb90l8cca065fb85c323@mail.gmail.com>

Not that I'm suggesting we ignore stories like this, but I think I'm going
to start a trend of sending around *happy* cycling stories.

-Jamie

On Jan 30, 2008 10:44 AM, Eric Mearns <ericmearns at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/01/30/spain.luxury.car/index.html
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
>
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From bsharpe at redcoatpublishing.com  Thu Jan 31 10:24:50 2008
From: bsharpe at redcoatpublishing.com (Basil Sharpe)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:24:50 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Motorist kills cyclist, sues for car damages
In-Reply-To: <d82c6a6f0801300848h688acb90l8cca065fb85c323@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fe966c460801300744h6263dd91o6f33a8d4d5b95b3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<d82c6a6f0801300848h688acb90l8cca065fb85c323@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DB70CDE45BF3D843AB3C23B35BC0886BB94DFE@CHI.redcoatpublishing.com>

I commute from Medford to North Station at least 3 to 4 times weekly.
The problem as I see it is that some drivers feel it's their right to
drive and drive fast.   Furthermore a good percentage of them at least
on my commute get very upset at the idea that they may have to slow a
bit because I'm making a left turn.  Then I get swear at treatment as
they race off.

 

Furthermore if by accident, they hit a cyclist, they really have no
consequence.   So what, there insurance goes up.  The insurance company
gets stuck with a 50k dollar bill and the driver gets back in his car
because "it's his right"  and drive too fast again.  And the people who
do drive carefully also get stuck with higher insurance rates.  But the
many drivers who just go too fast with no regard to pedestrians or
cyclists have no consequences to them and this is the big problem here.

 

The fix as I see it is to make the driver who hits someone personally
liable.   If it's determined the guy was reckless, then some
consequences should apply.   If the guy owns a house or has any assets,
the insurance company doesn't have to get stuck with the bill.  If he
has nothing, a percentage should be taken out of his paycheck for a very
long time to cover damages.  In this case the insurance would cover some
as well.  He also would loose his license either forever or a long time.
Now a driver might think before he speeds on a city street near
pedestrians and cyclists.  

 

I've ridden my bike in parts of Italy and other parts of Europe where
cars do slow for cyclist and give them plenty of room.  They pass and
instead of speeding and swearing they smile and give a friendly toot on
the horn.  I wonder if it's the laws.  I would hazard a guess that these
drivers have a different mindset to the guy who swore at me this
morning.

 

I own a car too, so the guy who swore and drove to fast and recklessly
too potentially makes my car insurance go up too if he his me.  So now I
pay by getting hurt, my car insurance may go up.  And the insurance
company who wasn't even there gets stuck with a bill.  Meanwhile the
state police usually side with driver and then let the guy drive home!!!
BTW I have proof or this statement, I witnessed an accident last year
involving a car and a cyclist.  I know what happened and I also
witnessed the policeman and how he acted and that isn't the first time,
I've seen this.)  

 

Crazy

 

But there may be a fix. End this notion in Massachusetts that as a
driver hey " it's my right to drive and get out of my way; the roads are
mine and I can do what I like with my car because if I hit you, I'll
just say it was your fault and get away with it; I pay nothing and get
to drive and do it all again."

 

End this with consequences.  But how?

________________________________

From: bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org
[mailto:bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org] On Behalf Of
Jameson Bull
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:49 AM
To: Boston Critical Mass
Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Motorist kills cyclist, sues for car damages

 

Not that I'm suggesting we ignore stories like this, but I think I'm
going to start a trend of sending around happy cycling stories. 

-Jamie

On Jan 30, 2008 10:44 AM, Eric Mearns <ericmearns at gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/01/30/spain.luxury.car/index.html
_______________________________________________
Boston Critical Mass mailing list
list at bostoncriticalmass.org
http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org

 



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From dbx at pobox.com  Thu Jan 31 11:20:03 2008
From: dbx at pobox.com (Dan Barrett)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:20:03 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Motorist kills cyclist, sues for car damages
In-Reply-To: <DB70CDE45BF3D843AB3C23B35BC0886BB94DFE@CHI.redcoatpublishing.com>
References: <fe966c460801300744h6263dd91o6f33a8d4d5b95b3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<d82c6a6f0801300848h688acb90l8cca065fb85c323@mail.gmail.com>
	<DB70CDE45BF3D843AB3C23B35BC0886BB94DFE@CHI.redcoatpublishing.com>
Message-ID: <47A1F533.8010804@pobox.com>

The difficulty with your formulation of the problem is that drivers 
_are_ personally liable for damages resulting from the operation of 
their vehicles (leaving aside instances in which the driver is driving 
at the behest of an employer).  One purchases car insurance in order to 
offset one's potential liability, i.e., because I will be personally 
liable for the $50,000 price tag of the new BMW which I total due to my 
negligence, and I don't have $50,000 lying around, I purchase car 
insurance to pay for any damage I cause.  The insurer, in turn, 
calculates the risk it incurs by covering me, and charges me accordingly 
(or, if I'm a bad enough risk, refuses to insure me in the first place). 
  If I'm involved in a car accident which causes damage exceeding the 
amount of my insurance coverage, guess what: the plaintiff will come 
after my assets in an effort to cover the balance.

I think what you're driving at is an instance in which a driver's act 
takes him or her outside of the realm of his/her insurance coverage.  I 
know virtually nothing about that area of the law, but it's my blithe 
understanding that intentional torts -- think of the driver who swerves 
in order to purposely hit a pedestrian -- will cause an insurer to 
decline coverage for an accident.  Anyone who practices insurance 
defense (or coverage) should chime in here.

If there is a ray of sunshine here, it's that insurers tend to be 
stingy, and investigate loss claims aggressively in order to avoid 
covering losses.  In the case of the driver who intentionally attempts 
to endanger you in the course of your commute from Medford, it may well 
be that her/his insurer will decline to cover the damages from any 
accident resulting.

All of which is a long way of saying, don't be so sure that drivers face 
no real, at-home financial penalty for endangering cyclists.  It may be 
the case that drivers don't understand the possible consequences of 
their actions -- from thinking that we bikers think it's "funny" when 
someone swerves at us, to misunderstanding the peril in which they place 
their assets when they pull shit like that -- but that doesn't mean that 
there are no consequences.  Maybe that's a larger metaphor for commuting 
by car anyhow.

Best,
d.



Basil Sharpe wrote:
> The fix as I see it is to make the driver who hits someone personally
> liable.   If it's determined the guy was reckless, then some
> consequences should apply.   If the guy owns a house or has any assets,
> the insurance company doesn't have to get stuck with the bill.  If he
> has nothing, a percentage should be taken out of his paycheck for a very
> long time to cover damages.  In this case the insurance would cover some
> as well.  He also would loose his license either forever or a long time.
> Now a driver might think before he speeds on a city street near
> pedestrians and cyclists.  

From jim_bcm at xuth.net  Thu Jan 31 11:29:52 2008
From: jim_bcm at xuth.net (Jim Leonard)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:29:52 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Motorist kills cyclist, sues for car damages
In-Reply-To: <DB70CDE45BF3D843AB3C23B35BC0886BB94DFE@CHI.redcoatpublishing.com>
References: <fe966c460801300744h6263dd91o6f33a8d4d5b95b3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<d82c6a6f0801300848h688acb90l8cca065fb85c323@mail.gmail.com>
	<DB70CDE45BF3D843AB3C23B35BC0886BB94DFE@CHI.redcoatpublishing.com>
Message-ID: <20080131162952.GI21927@statlerandwaldorf.netmar.com>

There message brings up many things.  First off, any insurance that 
covers more than just consequences to you and yours is explicitly 
covering negligence.  That is one of the primary purposes of auto and
homeowners insurance.  On the other hand it typically does not cover
actions that are not merely negligent but criminal which is why most
lawyers won't push for a criminal charges in a case like this because 
then you have to try and collect from the person rather than the 
insurance agency.  It's also much easier to win a civil case than a 
criminal case since the standards are different.  It's only with 
criminal cases or provably flagrant traffic offenses that someone is
going to lose their driving privileges and for that you'll need better
evidence than the two people involved arguing over what happened.

You also bring up the police.  Most police have no experience with 
accident reconstruction involving bicycles and furthermore see more
cyclists ignoring the traffic laws than following them so why shouldn't
they assume that the cyclist was at fault.  The only real way of 
combatting this in specific instances is to have video footage*.  In 
the longer term it would be better to get cyclists to follow the 
traffic laws.

* note that massachusetts is a "two party" state in regards to audio
recording.  Anyone is allowed to record images of anything (with a 
few very narrow exceptions) so long as they are legally allowed to be
where they are, but they are only allowed to record audio if anyone
being recorded can reasonably be assumed to have been informed of the
recording and certain officials (like police) have the right to not 
allow being recorded while acting in their official capacity (like 
arresting you).  What this effectively means is that if you mount 
video cameras to your bicycle you should disable audio otherwise you
are subject to legal consequences far worse than the person who 
intentionally tried to run you down (yes it's perverse but it's the 
way it is).

--jim


On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 10:24:50AM -0500, Basil Sharpe wrote:
> I commute from Medford to North Station at least 3 to 4 times weekly.
> The problem as I see it is that some drivers feel it's their right to
> drive and drive fast.   Furthermore a good percentage of them at least
> on my commute get very upset at the idea that they may have to slow a
> bit because I'm making a left turn.  Then I get swear at treatment as
> they race off.
> 
>  
> 
> Furthermore if by accident, they hit a cyclist, they really have no
> consequence.   So what, there insurance goes up.  The insurance company
> gets stuck with a 50k dollar bill and the driver gets back in his car
> because "it's his right"  and drive too fast again.  And the people who
> do drive carefully also get stuck with higher insurance rates.  But the
> many drivers who just go too fast with no regard to pedestrians or
> cyclists have no consequences to them and this is the big problem here.
> 
>  
> 
> The fix as I see it is to make the driver who hits someone personally
> liable.   If it's determined the guy was reckless, then some
> consequences should apply.   If the guy owns a house or has any assets,
> the insurance company doesn't have to get stuck with the bill.  If he
> has nothing, a percentage should be taken out of his paycheck for a very
> long time to cover damages.  In this case the insurance would cover some
> as well.  He also would loose his license either forever or a long time.
> Now a driver might think before he speeds on a city street near
> pedestrians and cyclists.  
> 
>  
> 
> I've ridden my bike in parts of Italy and other parts of Europe where
> cars do slow for cyclist and give them plenty of room.  They pass and
> instead of speeding and swearing they smile and give a friendly toot on
> the horn.  I wonder if it's the laws.  I would hazard a guess that these
> drivers have a different mindset to the guy who swore at me this
> morning.
> 
>  
> 
> I own a car too, so the guy who swore and drove to fast and recklessly
> too potentially makes my car insurance go up too if he his me.  So now I
> pay by getting hurt, my car insurance may go up.  And the insurance
> company who wasn't even there gets stuck with a bill.  Meanwhile the
> state police usually side with driver and then let the guy drive home!!!
> BTW I have proof or this statement, I witnessed an accident last year
> involving a car and a cyclist.  I know what happened and I also
> witnessed the policeman and how he acted and that isn't the first time,
> I've seen this.)  
> 
>  
> 
> Crazy
> 
>  
> 
> But there may be a fix. End this notion in Massachusetts that as a
> driver hey " it's my right to drive and get out of my way; the roads are
> mine and I can do what I like with my car because if I hit you, I'll
> just say it was your fault and get away with it; I pay nothing and get
> to drive and do it all again."
> 
>  
> 
> End this with consequences.  But how?
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org
> [mailto:bostoncriticalmass-bounces at bostoncriticalmass.org] On Behalf Of
> Jameson Bull
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:49 AM
> To: Boston Critical Mass
> Subject: Re: [*BCM*] Motorist kills cyclist, sues for car damages
> 
>  
> 
> Not that I'm suggesting we ignore stories like this, but I think I'm
> going to start a trend of sending around happy cycling stories. 
> 
> -Jamie
> 
> On Jan 30, 2008 10:44 AM, Eric Mearns <ericmearns at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/01/30/spain.luxury.car/index.html
> _______________________________________________
> Boston Critical Mass mailing list
> list at bostoncriticalmass.org
> http://bostoncriticalmass.org/list
> To unsubscribe email list-unsubscribe at bostoncriticalmass.org
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> "This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use or action taken in reliance upon this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify sender immediately [by replying to this email or by telephone at 312-236-4090] and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Any statements or opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of the sender's employer, its affiliated companies or any other person. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be timely, secure, error or virus free. The sender accepts no responsibility for any of the foregoing."

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From jim_bcm at xuth.net  Thu Jan 31 11:42:52 2008
From: jim_bcm at xuth.net (Jim Leonard)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:42:52 -0500
Subject: [*BCM*] Motorist kills cyclist, sues for car damages
In-Reply-To: <47A1F533.8010804@pobox.com>
References: <fe966c460801300744h6263dd91o6f33a8d4d5b95b3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<d82c6a6f0801300848h688acb90l8cca065fb85c323@mail.gmail.com>
	<DB70CDE45BF3D843AB3C23B35BC0886BB94DFE@CHI.redcoatpublishing.com>
	<47A1F533.8010804@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20080131164252.GJ21927@statlerandwaldorf.netmar.com>

On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 11:20:03AM -0500, Dan Barrett wrote:
> If there is a ray of sunshine here, it's that insurers tend to be 
> stingy, and investigate loss claims aggressively in order to avoid 
> covering losses.  In the case of the driver who intentionally attempts 
> to endanger you in the course of your commute from Medford, it may well 
> be that her/his insurer will decline to cover the damages from any 
> accident resulting.


From jym at econet.org  Thu Jan 31 12:01:09 2008
From: jym at econet.org (Jym Dyer)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:01:09 -0800
Subject: [*BCM*] Motorist kills cyclist, sues for car damages
In-Reply-To: Message from Jim Leonard of "Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:29:52 EST."
References: <20080131162952.GI21927@statlerandwaldorf.netmar.com>
Message-ID: <Jym.31Jan2008.47a1feb7@econet.org>

> Most police have no experience with accident reconstruction
> involving bicycles and furthermore see more cyclists ignoring
> the traffic laws than following them so why shouldn't they
> assume that the cyclist was at fault.

=v= I would say "misperceive" rather than "see."  Motorists
ignore more laws, more serious laws, and with much more serious
consequences; but since this is the norm, the police have taken
to ignoring all but their most egregious offenses.  (Most of
them are plunked behind the wheels of cars themselves.)
    <_Jym_>



From SusanShamel at aol.com  Thu Jan 31 17:29:57 2008
From: SusanShamel at aol.com (SusanShamel at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:29:57 EST
Subject: [*BCM*] A message from Bill McKibben
Message-ID: <c5d.27404e75.34d3a5e5@aol.com>

Dear bikers,
       OK, different subject, maybe even not apropro for this forum.  
However, what's the harm in passing along a good message? We all know that bikers are 
helping to save the world by not spewing more CO2 into the atmosphere.  So I 
assume that many of us are environmentalists and concerned about the state of 
our planet, which has been negatively affected by our current President.  
Hence the subject: we need to elect a President who will help us green-up America.
       I am forwarding you a comment by Bill McKibben due to your interest in 
our environment.  It is political, so you can do with it what you want -- but 
it sold me!
       Roger and I were privileged to again attend a lecture by Bill McKibben 
at BC last night. Bill is supporting Obama for President for his 
environmental policies.  Also, having recently traveled extensively throughout the world, 
he spoke about how Americans are intensely disliked abroad.  He views Obama as 
the one person who will be able to transcend all barriars and restore not 
only Americans', but also the world's faith in America. I have copied a recent 
report "Enviornmentalists for Obama."  You can go to http:
//enviros.barackobama.com to see the list of signatures following the letter as I did not include 
this long list.
******************************************************************************
********************
ENVIRONMENTALISTS FOR OBAMA
We, the undersigned, who have devoted much of our lives to the cause of 
conservation and environmental protection, all actively support Barack Obama in his 
quest for the Democratic nomination.

While it is true that all the leading Democratic candidates have expressed 
strong and similar environmental platforms, we believe that only Senator Obama 
has demonstrated the ability to work across the aisle and forge the broad 
coalitions necessary for real change. In Congress and the Illinois Legislature, 
Senator Obama has taken on vested interests and built creative coalitions that 
have achieved major environmental victories. It should come as no surprise that 
he has received the highest ranking from the League of Conservation Voters of 
any candidate for president. It is no accident that in Illinois in 2003 he was 
one of only six State Senators to receive a 100% environmental voting award 
from the Illinois Environmental Council. Our nation needs a President with the 
courage and ability to boldly confront climate change and our dependence on 
fossil fuels.

Two years ago, when few in the U.S. Senate would even say the word CAFE, 
Senator Obama reached across the aisle and introduced the Fuel Economy Reform Act 
with Republican Senator Richard Lugar and a dozen other Senators. By working 
with the environmental community, the United Auto Workers and a host of experts 
to build a strong coalition, Senator Obama was not only able to propose 
legislation that both strengthened and reformed fuel economy standards, but he was 
able to secure the votes of several senators who had never before supported 
fuel economy mandates. In 2007, for the first time in over 30 years, Congress 
adopted and the President signed strengthened and reformed fuel economy 
standards that were virtually identical to the Obama-Lugar legislation.

Barack Obama is also a champion of clean renewable power. As an Illinois 
state legislator, Senator Obama was the lead Senate sponsor of the renewable 
energy portfolio standard legislation supported by a strong coalition of 
environmental and public health organizations and clean energy businesses. In 2007, 
Illinois enacted among the very strongest renewable energy standards legislation 
in the nation ? requiring that utilities ramp up their purchases of clean 
renewable energy to 25% of the electricity supply by 2025. Barack Obama supports a 
similarly aggressive federal renewable requirement. We believe that as 
President, he will be uniquely capable of overcoming the political roadblocks that 
have thwarted adoption of a national RPS to date.

To address the climate crisis, Senator Obama supports an aggressive cap and 
trade program that harnesses the forces of the market and auctions 100% of the 
permits to fund energy efficiency, clean technology, and to protect low income 
Americans from rising energy prices. In addition, Obama has relentlessly 
pursued measures to reduce our dangerous dependence on oil while ensuring that 
efforts to promote alternative fuels also achieve our low carbon goals. For 
example, Senator Obama has led the effort to establish a National Low Carbon Fuels 
Standard based on the innovative program adopted in the state of California. 
Knowing that such a program would make many ethanol producers nervous, last 
year Senator Obama called the ethanol community together and explained his view 
that ethanol?s future depended upon developing low carbon alternatives to today?
s corn based option.

Recognizing the possibility of opposition from Midwest colleagues, Senator 
Obama worked with Senator Tom Harkin to introduce the legislation with him. When 
introducing the legislation, Senator Obama asserted that we must 
simultaneously pursue our climate change and energy security goals. We applaud Senator 
Obama?s view that a low carbon fuels standard is the most effective way to ensure 
that all alternative fuels - - including coal based options - - are not 
allowed into the system unless they too achieve significant carbon reductions. 
Again, Senator Obama?s broad vision and ability to build unusual coalitions has 
moved an important environmental priority forward.

We believe that Obama is telling it as it is when he says that it is not 
enough to elect a Democrat, but that we need to elect one who can govern by 
uniting people in a setting where Democrats don?t hold all the cards. Climate change 
is the challenge of our generation. We must have a President with the courage 
and resourcefulness to unite the nation and face up to this challenge.

We invite all environmentalists and conservationists to join us in supporting 
Barack Obama, which may well decide the kind of country we leave to our 
children. 






**************
Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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